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There is no doubt that a wage of £12 an hour will help, but the main problem is at the experienced staff level. The nurseries are able to attract staff, but they cannot keep them when they are experienced because they go on to other jobs in other sectors. My concern is about the quality of provision. It is not just about care; it is about education, so quality is an issue.

You are right that not that many nurseries have closed, but they are limiting their capacity. I have lots of constituents who are struggling to get a place anywhere for children younger than three or four. A real problem with capacity is developing, but the issue is primarily to do with retaining experienced staff. I just hope that that is understood and that you will address that when it comes to the budget for next year. Is that the plan?

I am not in government—you are.

When Mike Russell was Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, he said:

“This party believes there is no place for compulsory redundancies in Scotland’s colleges.”

Therefore, I am confused by your earlier statement. Why are you saying that, since the college sector got close to Government—since Mike Russell was in office—it has been excluded from the no compulsory redundancies policy?

Yes, but you have a choice. You have said that you are not in favour of having compulsory redundancies. At the time of the Office for National Statistics reclassification, you could have determined that the policy applied to the college sector as well. Why did you not do so?

I know that you were not.

So, when Mike Russell was cabinet secretary, he could have applied that rule. Is that right?

This is part of a trend. I have spoken to college staff several times, and they feel quite aggrieved. You intervened in the teachers’ pay dispute, but you refuse to intervene now. Why are you again drawing a distinction between cases where you intervene and others where you do not? What is the rationale for that?

I agree that we need to reach a settlement. The situation has gone on for years, and the foundations are weak. Can you imagine how the staff feel, though? Not only will you not apply the no compulsory redundancies policy—

Just let me finish my sentence. You will not impose that, you will not intervene in the pay dispute when you have done so in other areas, and then you take £26 million away from the college sector in order to pay the teachers whose pay dispute you intervened in. Do you not understand why college staff feel pretty furious about what has gone on?

I mean the wraparound stuff and the provision for younger age groups. I am keen to know how that is progressing.