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I will be blunt. The care-experienced young people were pretty angry when we met them. They think that nothing has really changed. They think that there is a lot of talk and that there are lots of plans, documents and surveys, but that nothing really happens. That is why they are angry, cynical and sceptical. They gave us a pretty hard time, because they think that we are part of the problem. Are you angry about that? Are they right to be angry? Do you share the anger about those in positions of power?

Is that the good example?

You are dodging.

The commissioner will be aware of the debate that is currently taking place about behaviour, distress and violence in schools. You will also be aware that the cabinet secretary is preparing a report and action plan. I am interested to know what involvement you have had in that action plan and particularly what your views are on some of the emerging issues of exclusion, boundaries and consequences, resources, and the effectiveness of restorative practice. What is your take on all that?

Okay.

Give me an example of great progress on the Promise and an example of very poor progress or no progress being made.

Is the lack of spreading good practice the bad example, or is there anything else that children and young people should be, or are right to be, angry about?

I will just be a wee bit more persistent about this. I asked about resources, exclusions, restorative practice and boundaries and consequences. I get the general point and I get that your approach of understanding why young people are behaving in the way that they behave is very important, but we also have to think about what everybody else in the class and the teacher experiences. It is about a balance between the two and how we achieve that balance. What is your view on the specific issues that I have mentioned?

Stephanie Callaghan summed up very well how the boundaries, consequences, frameworks and apparatus that are created in a classroom keep everyone safe. I am not talking about punishment. I do not want to go back to the days when I used to get belted every second week at school. I want an understanding system. That is a far superior way of doing it.

However, there is now a fear among the teachers and pupils that I speak to—and lots of them come to me—who say that the situation is intolerable in their circumstances, that it must change, and that they have to have those boundaries, consequences and other apparatus to make them all safe.

I am disappointed you are dodging the question and I do not know why you are, because it is about every young person feeling safe. I get the bit about resources and support and having to deal with the symptoms rather than the causes—I get all that. However, that is not working just now and it will not change overnight. What else can we do to make sure that young people feel safe in their class?

There is no doubt that things have got worse since the pandemic, but the stresses were already being felt quite considerably before the pandemic.

My other question is about where we draw the line with regard to who is in mainstream education and who is in a specialist environment and whether we are getting that right. Do you think we have the plan for the numbers and types of specialist places right? Is the balance appropriate, and do we have sufficient specialisms?