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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 April 2025
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Displaying 919 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

Why was it not set up in 2010, when the vision was set out?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

I am not asking for a bullet-by-bullet breakdown of what has happened, but I would quite like the headline figures about any impact that has been made. I know that you have not been the minister for long, but you represent a Government that has been in power since 2007, so I would expect you to have an understanding of what that impact has been. Can you give us the headlines?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

I hope that you understand my frustration that the only reason we are debating this here today is because of a member’s bill. Where is the Government action? Where is the Government measurement during that 14-year period? Perhaps we have reached this crisis point because the Government has not really focused on that. Is that not a fair accusation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

You do not know the figures, do you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

However, you do not have evidence for that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

It is a sign of the frustration that we all feel that it takes a member’s bill on outdoor residentials to trigger the Government into taking actions that it should have taken years ago. If the Government does not understand the impact of a strategy, what is the point of producing those strategies?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Willie Rennie

This is an evidence session about outdoor learning and residentials, and you do not have the key facts about the progress that the Government has made. Everything that you have provided this morning is valid, but it is all anecdotal about what you have seen. I want to know what the Government has seen over those 14 years, and you do not have that this morning.

We are not making any progress, so let us move on. If the bill is rejected, we would not go back to the position that we were in before. The message that could be sent to local authorities is that outdoor residentials do not matter and are not valued by the Parliament and the Government. How will you respond to that? We are not taking a neutral position because, if the Parliament and the Government reject the bill, there could be ramifications. Some people have said that that could trigger the closure of many more outdoor centres. How would you respond to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Willie Rennie

Thank you for setting that out succinctly. That was helpful.

At the end of the day, this comes down to priorities. In some ways, of course, it is a question of money, but there is money there. The issue is how we spend it. People have said today that it is important that we provide residential outdoor education opportunities, but is it very important that we do that? Is it more important than the other things that we are doing?

Tara Lillis, do you want to kick off on that? Where does the provision of outdoor education opportunities fit in your priorities?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Willie Rennie

On the scope of provision, should it be for five to 17-year-olds? How much would you have to increase your capacity by in order to meet the numbers in that group? Have you done the sums on how much you would need?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Willie Rennie

A lot of this comes down to money, but it is money and priorities. You have heard that there is a lot going on in Scottish education, including real challenges—you will have seen that first hand yourself. You receive some money from foundations and charities and so on. I am intrigued in whether you think that the bill might open up further opportunities to release money from those charities. By the fact that it is law, would that trigger more investment from elsewhere, or will all of this have to come from the state?