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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 April 2025
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Displaying 919 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Excellent.

Okay. I will move on to the whole family wellbeing fund, is that money being spent?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Thank you very much.

I have one final question on early learning and childcare, and it is my usual question about the gap between the private, voluntary and independent sector and council nurseries. When will that gap be closed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

That is good and detailed work, and I am pleased that it is happening, but I am just not sure that it captures the scale of the challenge. There are two particular figures that I have identified. One is the net liquidity days figure, and the other is the cash flow percentage figure. In the four or five years from 2021, the net liquidity days figure has gone from 193 to 125. That is an indication of how sustainable the institutions are. The net cash flow figure has gone from 14 per cent to 5 per cent. Those are big reductions. I know that it is very technical, but they are an indication of the sustainability of the institutions.

We also know that there is huge variability. My constituency’s University of St Andrews is hugely different from the university that I went to in Paisley, so there are huge variations. Does the minister accept that the figures are a symptom of the current crisis that we have in some institutions? Does he accept that the figures give us an understanding of why we are facing crises? Is that the issue, or is something else going on?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

I am talking about the gap in funding for institutions and the fact that there is discrimination, in that workers in council nurseries, who are doing exactly the same jobs as their colleagues in the private sector, are paid more.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

There is one final thing. The previous First Minister, Humza Yousaf, promised to close the gap. Is that still the commitment?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

I accept that the previous UK Government was not helpful in this area, although there was a massive 180-degree turn at the last minute. I accept that, and it had some real effects on institutions. The fact is, however, that Scottish institutions were forced to go down that route, in effect, because of the figures that I have just highlighted. I have sat here before and had a discussion with the cabinet secretary and her predecessor about overexposure not just to individual countries but to the globe, and the fact that we are dependent on that funding to cross-subsidise into teaching and research.

We should not get distracted by that. We need to focus on the fact that institutions are more vulnerable, and we have seen the effects of that with the universities in Dundee and Aberdeen, and there have been reports today about the University of the West of Scotland. Does the minister accept that the policy that has been pursued for the past decade is just not sustainable for the next decade? We will see a continuation of the liquidity and cash flow figures, and there will be some real consequences. Does the minister accept that that needs to be addressed?

Similar to the issue that Miles Briggs raised, there needs to be a more substantial and urgent debate, otherwise we are just going to drift into a greater crisis. Does the minister accept that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

[Inaudible.]—have particular problems with tuition fees, right? That is on the record, so I will not go into it. However, the problem is that, every time we get into this debate, that brick wall is put up, and it prevents any discussion about anything else. It is the barrier, and we need to get beyond it if we are to have a proper discussion about sustainability, or these institutions are going to go “Poot!”

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

Let’s not do that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Willie Rennie

First, on George Adam’s point and what the minister said in response about the ancients and widening access, I have seen for myself that the University of St Andrews has done an extraordinary job of ensuring that when students come, they stay and complete their courses, so there is not the drop-out rate that George Adam talked about. That costs money, but the university has nevertheless made a remarkable difference, and I think that it deserves credit for having done so.

I want to talk about the sustainability of university finances. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that there has been a 22 per cent real-terms cut in university teaching funding in the past decade. Does the minister accept that figure?