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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

I think that you might agree with me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

There is a lot going on in HE and FE, and now in the apprenticeship world. We have talked about cross-party talks on HE funding and there has been a great focus on college funding. We have had the issues at the University of Dundee, and UHI Perth is now in a terrible condition. That is just in my part of the world, but there are stories from other parts about financial difficulties, so there is a lot going on. Is now the time to make a change of this magnitude? Can the funding council cope? Does it have the headspace to do this?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

Precisely.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

Part of the whole point of bringing the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council together with the Scottish Further Education Funding Council was to attempt to break down the barriers between university and college funding. However, that did not succeed, and the situation has never changed. Is that not a warning that perhaps these structural changes do not deliver the policy change that, as you quite reasonably set out, you desire to achieve? That innovative approach, looking at different ways to provide apprenticeships and, perhaps, expanding the amount of money going into them, is never going to happen.

09:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

That is a reason against change. Why do you think that there needs to be change?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

Andrew or Sai, do you have anything to contribute?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

I have a quick question to follow up on that. Jon Vincent, you have given evidence about the disparity in funding between colleges and universities. If all the apprenticeship funding is put into the new funding model, does that not lead us to believe that exactly the same thing will happen—that the boundaries between the different budget headings will not change and all that will happen is the lift and shift that Paul Grice was talking about? Is that not an indication that this is perhaps a fruitless exercise?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

Let me try to summarise. Andrew Ritchie, you are sceptical. Sir Paul and Jon Vincent, you are passionate about reform, but you are a little bit underwhelmed by the structural change. Is that a fair representation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

That is fine. To be clear, I am just presenting evidence. I am not criticising SDS; I am just presenting the reports that are out there. There are two substantial reports and there has been lots of other commentary, so the evidence is not insignificant.

Thank you very much for your answers.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Willie Rennie

What are your reflections, Phiona? Do you recognise that lack of leadership?