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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 1268 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I thank the panel members for joining us this morning.

I have a couple of questions about employment. What is your understanding, based on the bill as it stands, of who the employer would actually be?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

No. It is okay—I will stop there.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Thank you. Does anyone have other points to make?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

In our earlier evidence session, we heard about the diverse fabric of the social care sector and different models of interconnectivity between the NHS, councils, housing associations and employability services. However, I want to focus on homelessness provision, because that will not necessarily be transferred and it is not in the bill. There are concerns about the direct impact that the bill—and other bits of legislation that are coming forward—will have on the homelessness sector. What will be put in place to ensure effective joint working between homelessness services and the national care service?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I agree on that point.

Finally, minister—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

We have left the most important theme until last. We need to see how the bill will deliver for unpaid carers.

During consideration of the bill that became the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016, another Aberdonian, Nanette Milne—whom, I know, the minister knows well—lodged amendments to put in place breaks for carers. That was really important at the time, but it has not been delivered, partly due to the fact that support plans are not being delivered or commissioned. Statistics show that only about 20,000 of the estimated 339,000 unpaid carers are able to access those plans. How will the bill ensure that that situation is turned around and that unpaid carers actually get those breaks?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

As the bill progresses, I will want to make sure, through amendments, that that is delivered.

The minister started the evidence session by saying—the cabinet secretary also said this when he launched the bill—that the bill will end the postcode lottery of care in Scotland. We all want to see that, but this framework bill has been designed around the NHS. We have a postcode lottery in our NHS, and ministers are responsible for policy direction and delivery, so why will this be different?

I represent Edinburgh, which has some of the worst delayed discharge rates and some of the highest homelessness numbers in the country, and I worry that the bill will not necessarily change that. What learning will ministers who have been responsible for the NHS for 16 years bring to the bill?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

We will be speaking to the minister after this session. What would your message to him be? Perhaps we will start with Gerry Cornes on my final devil’s advocate question.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

It has been put to this committee and to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that, following the pandemic, the workforce is tired and feels burned out. Could the creation of a national care service be a distraction from recovery in social care? Can the Government guarantee that we are not about to embark on a further period of disruption and potential underinvestment by local authorities? We have heard that many local authorities are viewing the national care service proposals as a reason not to invest in assets.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I respect what you have said about some of the outcomes that you would like to be achieved, and I agree with many of those. However, can you understand the concerns of someone who is working as a carer today about the fact that you are suggesting that their employer will be the local care board, which does not currently exist, about the disruption that that could present and about the uncertainty around their pension being transferred?