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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 December 2025
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Displaying 6524 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

It is fair to say that we heard from SEPA that it feels that it has enough resource to do what it is asked to do at the moment. However, we might be asking it to do something else through the introduction of the legislation. The fear is that it does not have enough resources to do that, and the financial memorandum does not allow it extra resource. Is that a concern for you?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Monica Lennon has been sitting very quietly waiting for her opportunity, and it has now come.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 36th meeting in 2025 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee.

I welcome to the meeting Sarah Boyack, who is attending as a substitute member for Monica Lennon for agenda items 2 and 3, on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill. Under rule 9.13A of our standing orders, Monica Lennon is not entitled to exercise the rights of a committee member in relation to those items because she is, of course, the member in charge of the bill. Monica will, however, be present for the evidence session on the bill and, like all members of the Scottish Parliament, she is entitled to ask questions, and she will be able to do so once committee members have asked their questions.

Agenda item 4 is consideration of our work programme, and we will not discuss the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill under that item, so Monica Lennon, rather than Sarah Boyack, is entitled to take part. I mention all that purely in the interests of transparency, given that the committee might agree to take items 3 and 4 in private.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. As I have just stated, item 3 is consideration of today’s evidence on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, and item 4 is consideration of our work programme. I will split the question into two parts to make sure that I do not break any of the Parliament’s standing orders.

First, I will ask whether members agree to take item 3 in private, noting that Monica Lennon may not participate in that decision while Sarah Boyack may. I will then ask whether members agree to take item 4 in private; Monica Lennon may take part in that decision but Sarah Boyack may not.

Do members agree to take item 3 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Do members agree to take item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

We heard in evidence that the bar for a prosecution under section 40 of the Regulatory Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 would be easier to achieve than the bar for a prosecution under the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, if it is passed. There is an option to ensure a conviction, using the section 40 route. I am sure that somebody will delve into that.

There is an issue that I want to push you on. In its memorandum on the bill, the Scottish Government said that there was quite a big overlap between the bill and section 40 of the 2014 act. Could you highlight in which areas there is an overlap, whether you feel that section 40 is deficient and whether we need another string to that bow through the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

I am sorry for coming in like this, which I do not normally do, but I am slightly confused. I thought that I had heard it said in evidence that, if there were two offences—one on a lower shelf and one on a higher shelf—you would always go for the offence on the lower shelf first, because there would be more chance of getting a conviction.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Yes. I would be delighted if you wanted to argue with the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service; I think that it would be an interesting debate.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

I apologise. I do not know why that happens, but apparently, if my phone is on and there is an alarm at home, which is—[Interruption.] I am just going to stop this. It overrides everything, because it is a home security alarm that the police put in. I apologise profusely. I do not know why it has gone off. I hope that my wife is fine. If she is not, I guess that she has called the police. I apologise profusely to the committee. David, back to you. I am embarrassed.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much, Monica. You will get your time next week, I think.

I have a brief final question. If the bill had been passed 10 years ago, how many prosecutions on ecocide would there have been?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Edward Mountain

In fairness, I do not think that anyone said 11. I think that they might have suggested one, if any.