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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 November 2025
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Displaying 6394 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Sorry, can I just push a wee bit on this, just so I understand it? I will give an example. Let us say that an aquaculture company wants to use a chemical that has been approved by the veterinary medicines directorate to be used to kill sea lice in salmon pens. The company applies to use it, and uses it as per the permit that is issued by SEPA for an on-use licence for the on-use use of the chemical that has been approved by the veterinary medicines directorate. However, all the starfish, prawns, lobsters and crabs in the area are killed because they are affected by the chemical. Who becomes liable for that? You are sort of saying that no one is liable because if something has been done under permit, everything is hunky-dory. However, in my example, everyone knows that that is what the effect of that chemical has been. I am trying to give you a real example, which, to my mind, raises questions. It seems to me that if the chemical has killed off a substantial number of sea creatures, that could be ecocide in the locality concerned. Does anyone want to pass comment on that? Would you prefer to follow it up in correspondence? Murdo, do you want to comment?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Science does change all the time, but when the offence is known about and it continues, it would be reckless. We could end up like Australia. They introduced cane toads, which was thought to be a great idea at the time, but cane toads are now considered one of the biggest pests because they destroy every bit of natural wildlife in Australia, and everyone is encouraged to destroy them at every opportunity. I am worried that the bill does not address some of the things that are of concern.

Murdo, do you want to come back in? I thought you were taking a breath.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back to the meeting.

I inadvertently and wrongly missed out saying that we have received apologies from Bob Doris, who is attending another committee meeting for a stage 2 consideration. For those who noticed that he is missing, that is the reason why.

Our second panel on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill will focus on the international context. I welcome Dr Ricardo Pereira, who is a reader in law at Cardiff University, Dr Suwita Hani Randhawa, who is a senior lecturer in politics and international relations at the University of the West of England, and Dr Rachel Killean, who is a senior law lecturer at the University of Sydney law school.

I will start off as I did with the previous panel. I will ask the easy question and give you each a chance to answer it. What are the key drivers in other countries of the development of ecocide laws? Is it because their law is lacking something? Why are they being driven to legislate?

Who would like to go first? That is a bit of a rhetorical question because I will go to Ricardo first. Would you like to start on that?

11:15  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Very commendable. Thank you. Suwita, do you want to say anything?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much. I am going to move on. Douglas Lumsden has a few questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Sorry, but I am going to interrupt here. Ricardo, you are in danger of getting me into trouble with my fellow committee members. You have given a long and full answer, with a lot of facts in it, but I have to impress on everyone the shortness of time—otherwise, I will have to allow only a certain number of people to answer questions, which will upset the witnesses. I am asking you, please, to be as brief as possible.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much, Monica.

That brings us to the end of the evidence session. I know that Clive Mitchell has offered to write to the committee, and the clerks will follow that up to ensure that we get back from him, as it were, what he offered to do.

I will suspend the meeting for five minutes, and then we will move into private session before coming back into public session again. Therefore, I ask committee members to be back here at 10:56. Again, I thank the witnesses for the evidence that they have given this morning.

10:51 Meeting continued in private.  

11:27 Meeting continued in public.  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Clive Mitchell wants to come in, but I was going to ask him a question. I will let you come in, Clive, knowing that my next question is coming to you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Kevin Stewart wants to ask a supplementary question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I am grateful for that. I am sorry for interrupting, Douglas.