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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Displaying 6701 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Our next agenda item is an evidence session on natural capital finance in Scotland. On our first panel, I am pleased to welcome Stuart Greenwood, who is a partner in Shepherd and Wedderburn LLP’s rural property and business team; Joel Paterson, who is the head of natural capital in Scotland at Strutt & Parker; Stephen Young, who is director of policy at Scottish Land & Estates; and Olly Hughes, who is managing director of forestry at Gresham House. Olly, thank you for agreeing to join us at slightly the last minute.

It will be an interesting session, and I know that members will have lots of questions. The temptation for witnesses is to want to answer every single question. As nice as that might be for you, it is not possible for me because it would mean that I cut out some of the committee members, which would cause a disagreement afterwards that I would have to resolve. If you agree with what somebody said, you do not need to say any more, but, if you want to come in, try to catch my eye or the member’s eye and we will bring you in, and I will try not to cut you off.

Before we go into the session, I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, in that I am a member of a family farming partnership. We farm 500 acres of land that I own in Speyside, and we are tenant farmers of another 500 acres in Speyside. I can say quite categorically at this stage that I have not invested in natural capital, because I do not understand it. Maybe all will become clearer today.

The first questions are from Bob Doris.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Douglas Lumsden has some questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

It sounds a bit like a Ponzi scheme to me, but maybe I have it wrong.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

The deputy convener is next. You are up, Ben.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Bob Doris has a quick question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I have a few quick-fire questions, because we are very nearly at the end of our session. The first question is for Olly Hughes. You said that Gresham House has managed land. It also owns land, does it not? If so, how much land does it own?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Okay. If you could perhaps let us know how much land Gresham House owns, that would be useful.

I am a little concerned. We have talked about releasing money by selling things into the future. To me, the risk seems unquantifiable for 99 years and for 50 years. Farmers may well need those carbon credits to be able to continue to farm, because one thing is for sure: industries will force down to the primary producer their obligations to reach net zero. There is a huge risk.

Forestry and Land Scotland and NatureScot have no risk. Between them, they own 670,000 hectares of Scotland. Should they trade all their credits? Would that be your advice to them?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Would you advise it to do that, Joel Paterson, if you were trading for it?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Yes, but it owns land such as Cairn Gorm mountain and the surrounding areas, which does not necessarily have trees.

On that, if PIUs are being traded in the future, what is a PIU worth? Is it 50p? Is it 21 quid?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I am just trying to get a handle on it. Is it one, two or three PIUs? Is it somewhere between one and 10, or is it somewhere between 10 and 100? I do not know.