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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 December 2025
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Displaying 6581 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

It sounds as though we were both misled—me and this committee, and you and your committee.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Before we leave this subject—and because Bob Doris brought it up—I just want to say that, as members will be aware, I rent houses. I wanted to ensure that there was no dubiety in that regard. Mr Doris mentioned the rental targets for 2028.

I have a quick question for you, Chris Stark. I understand what you are saying about people upgrading their house after they purchase it. You are right; as a surveyor, I would say that, if someone has not upgraded their property before they sell it, they will depress its value.

Based on the information that we heard yesterday, the average price of installing a heat pump is about £15,000. If you are starting from zero—and many houses in Scotland will be in that position; my rough survey of the position across Scotland suggested that, two weeks ago, 40 per cent of houses on sale in Scotland were EPC band C or below—and you add in insulation, there will be a huge amount to do. It could cost someone £25,000 to upgrade their property when they move in. Indeed, it could be more than that; it could be up to £40,000 for a semi-detached property.

That work will depress the value of the house, because a surveyor will come along and tell the person that they will have to spend £40,000 to upgrade it, so it will be worth £40,000 less. Another surveyor might then come along and tell a potential buyer that they do not have to spend £40,000, because the work has already been done. However, they will then have to spend £40,000 more to buy the house, because they have been saved that money. That will really affect the housing market.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

I am sorry, Keith, but I just wanted to ask about that before you come in. Are you suggesting that, in order to ramp up the supply chain to provide heat pumps, we should do what France does and ensure that the heat pumps installed in France must be made in France?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

And that means that the price of installation will come down, too.

I am sorry, Keith—I cut you off.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Keith, I hope that you are going to last until the end of this meeting and that you have plenty of water.

The next questions are from the deputy convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Ben, are you about to leave the subject of buildings? Douglas Lumsden wants to come in on buildings.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

I give fair warning that I am going to change the order slightly. I know that Mark Ruskell is at home, so I will bring in Douglas Lumsden, Mark, and then Ben Macpherson. Mark has been struggling a wee bit with a bug; we are delighted that he is at home, but also delighted that he can contribute.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Well, there you go—two questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Chris, you do not have to make a separate address to each of those people or groups of people.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2023

Meeting date: 23 April 2024

Edward Mountain

Thank you. Before we move to questions, I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a member of a farming partnership that produces quality beef, which might create problems as far as methane is concerned. I want to make that clear at the beginning just in case that comes up in the conversations this morning.

The dust is still settling following the statement that the Cabinet Secretary for Wellbeing Economy, Net Zero and Energy made last week. We heard that new legislation will be introduced to replace the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Act 2019. The committee does not yet know what that legislation will be or what the timeframe for it will be. Your warnings about making sure that proper targets and a pathway with policies are included are pertinent, but we will see how things develop in the coming weeks.

My first question to Chris Stark is probably an easy one. I would guess that, by last year, a lot of politicians were hearing that it was not possible for Scotland to reach the 2030 target. When did it become clear to you that there was no way that the Government could reach its 2030 target?