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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 April 2025
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Displaying 4725 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Having been involved in the sector for a while, I know that, every time that land reform comes along, it puts a check on the number of tenants who go into agricultural tenancies. That happened in 2003 and in 2014. I am concerned. Are you not concerned that the legislation is going to send the wrong message? Surely we need more tenants, and we need it to be easier for tenants to rent land knowing that they can be secure there, as well as for the person who lets the land to be secure in the knowledge that they are there under an agreement that they have made.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I will make some deer fences for you at that price, because I am not paying that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

A lot of resumptions that I have seen have been done with people sitting round a table, negotiating and coming up with what is considered to be a fair value.

I am concerned that you are not defining the methodology. I make it clear that I was a member of RICS, although I have let my membership lapse—like my memberships of the other organisations—because I do not use it any more. If you do not define the methodology, is there not a danger that you will leave things open to question?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I am asking you, cabinet secretary, about the legislation that you want to introduce. What guidance will you give local landowners? What are you going to do? I am one of those people who hate legislation that does not clarify what it is and needs secondary legislation or guidance to do that. To me, as a parliamentarian, that is not the way to produce legislation. What are you expecting landowners to do?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

No, I would just like you to paraphrase them. Do you expect people to have a couple of meetings of an evening? How will they get hold of the community? Will they write to all the people?

I am just trying to work this out. You have given a figure of £20,000 for the consultations. I was a surveyor for a bit and I used to manage land for other people, so I know how much that process costs. I also know how much it costs to produce forestry plans and how much Forestry and Land Scotland spends on reviews of forestry plans. All that I am trying to do is to get an idea of what you expect people to do, so that I can find out whether the figure of £20,000 that is in the financial memorandum is justifiable.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

It is probably fair to say, then, that the bill will be subject to heavy amendment as a result of the evidence taking, which includes the evidence given by the Scottish Land Commission. Are we not just making the legislation up as we go along? After all, the legislation will not necessarily reflect what we have now, which is what we have taken evidence on. Surely that leaves the committee in quite a difficult situation when it comes to stage 2, if we are having to consider radically redrafting the bill.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back. The cabinet secretary has been joined by two new officials as we consider part 2 of the bill. I welcome Fiona Leslie, agricultural holdings and women in agriculture team leader, and Andrew Crawley, a solicitor at the Scottish Government.

Cabinet secretary, I start with the easy question. Why did the Government decide not to proceed with the statutory land management tenancy that had been consulted on?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

The responses from people regarding whether that was a good or a bad idea were a bit more nuanced. Would it have been helpful to have a lease-forming part of the bill rather than introducing it through secondary legislation?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I am trying to find out whether there is a view; you say that you are using a different word with the same effect, which creates confusion.

I have a further question on diversification and how rent reviews take place. Farms, whether they are owner occupied or tenanted, have to look at all the options to make ends meet, because things are different. Ten years ago, a farm probably needed two farm labourers to do what one labourer can do now, because of machinery. That might throw up the issue of diversifying the use of a house, or a house might no longer be required. The bill does not cover that at all. Is that a mistake?

As Fiona Leslie said, farming is changing so quickly, so should we consider that the resources that are needed for farming should be changed? Should that be taken into account when setting rent to allow the landlord and the tenant—or the occupier and owner, if they are the same person—to make the best use of a property?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Cabinet secretary, I am sure that you would like to answer that question, but I know that parliamentarians have very strong views about introducing at stage 2 things that have not been consulted on at stage 1.