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I will bring in George Adam first with a supplementary.

Thank you very much. You have been our first panel of witnesses for our stage 1 deliberations on the bill, so your evidence has been very helpful in kicking off our consideration of it. I am grateful to you for your time, your submissions to the committee and the answers that you have given. You have given us a lot to think about and to take forward.

At this point, we will move into private session.

We are running a bit short of time, so, if Miles Briggs has finished his questions, we will move on to questions from Ross Greer.

Good morning and welcome to the 28th meeting in 2024 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee.

We have apologies from Stephanie Callaghan, so we welcome back Jackie Dunbar.

The first item on our agenda is an evidence session on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. This is a member’s bill that was introduced by Liz Smith MSP, who is in the public gallery.

I begin by welcoming our witnesses. Emeritus Professor Chris Loynes is professor in human nature relations in the institute of science and environment, centre for national parks and protected areas and outdoor studies at the University of Cumbria. Professor Greg Mannion is a senior lecturer in education at the University of Stirling and joins us remotely. Dr Roger Scrutton is an honorary research fellow in outdoor education at the University of Edinburgh. I welcome you all to the committee.

There is a lot that we want to question you on. Professor Mannion, if you could indicate that you want to come in by raising your hand, I will try to make sure that that catches my eye on the screen.

I begin with a general opening question. I should say that, as we have a lot to get through, if you hear evidence that is the same as your own, you can simply say that you agree and we can move on.

I read Professor Loynes’s written submission to the committee—in particular about his research into the significant improvements in maths and literacy scores and exam results among pupils who have been on outdoor residential courses.

Could each of you outline why you think that outdoor education is an important element and why the bill should be supported? I think that all the witnesses agree that there is a need for the bill, albeit that some have caveats and conditions. However, in relation to the general principle, what are the witnesses’ views on the bill and the need for outdoor residential education?

Dr Scrutton wants to come back in.

I pass on the thanks of the committee to Professor Hayward and our other witnesses, not just for your contribution here today but for the work with the review. The fact that we have overrun a bit shows the interest across the committee. We will all listen with interest to what the cabinet secretary will say in December. Following that, who knows, we might be keen to get you back in again, but we will wait and see what final response the Government comes forward with later this year.

That concludes the public part of our proceedings.

It was an alarm to remind us that we were supposed to have 90 minutes with our witnesses, which has now expired, and several other members want to come in. I know that our witnesses have a lot of information to get out, but I ask them to constrain their answers. If something has already been said, there is no need to repeat it.

We move on to questions from Miles Briggs.

Mickey Mouse. People say that a lot about me, but carry on, Mr Bain.

Yes.

Given your reference to cherry picking, if in December the cabinet secretary accepts some but not all of your recommendations, will you be disappointed? Is that the type of cherry picking that you are not hoping for?