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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1181 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

The next item on our agenda is consideration of a piece of subordinate legislation subject to the affirmative procedure. The committee will take evidence on the instrument from the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and her officials, and the cabinet secretary will then move the motion to approve it.

I welcome to the meeting Jenny Gilruth, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills; Alison Taylor, deputy director for improvement, attainment and wellbeing; Laura Meikle, head of the support and wellbeing unit; and Nico McKenzie-Juetten, a lawyer at the Scottish Government legal directorate.

I invite the cabinet secretary to speak to the draft instrument.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

My point is that it should never take a year to do the work on an issue such as free school meals. That point applies to not only the Scottish Government and Scottish bodies but the UK Government and others. If a Government has an aspiration to take action on an issue such as free school meals, on which I do not think that there is political disagreement, there must surely be a way to do so, and it should not take a year. Maybe the SSI will lead to good practice in future.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

We move to agenda item 3. I invite the cabinet secretary to move motion S6M-16753.

Motion moved,

That the Education, Children and Young People Committee recommends that the Social Security Information-sharing (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2025 [draft] be approved.—[Jenny Gilruth]

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

I was—very much so. On page 1 of your policy note, it says that the regulations will

“increase the eligibility for free school meals but which are not as expansive as universal provision.”

Those of us on the committee who, only a few months ago, voted for universal provision, which was agreed to by the Parliament, will find it difficult to agree to the regulations because of the inclusion of that line in your policy note.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

Sorry, but you made that pledge in the 2021 election and were then defeated in the Parliament on 10 September last year. Now, you are asking the committee—and, when the regulations go to the chamber, the Parliament—to agree to something that will allow you to deliver less.

The Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland, who is sitting behind you, is giving evidence after you. At the time, she said that the rollback on universal free school meals was a “broken promise to children”. She said that children going to school hungry could

“severely impact development in childhood and into adulthood”.

She also said:

“One of the greatest barriers to the take up of school meals are feelings of shame and stigma, and only providing meals to Primary 6 and 7 in receipt of the Scottish Child Payment just exacerbates that stigma.”

Do you agree with that? Do you agree that it sounds like the children’s commissioner does not support the regulations?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

You and your party voted against a motion—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

You are repeating a point that you have already made.

Do you respect the will of Parliament, on 10 September last year, to provide universal free school meals? Regardless of what was in the budget earlier this year, there was a vote in the Parliament to provide universal free school meals, and the regulations will allow you not to implement that, despite all the concerns from political parties and, as I have just articulated, the children’s commissioner.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

If it compels you, when will you deliver it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

That is on the Government. You could have done that in the past couple of years, could you not?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Douglas Ross

I understand all that and you explained it well in your opening statement, but the second page of your own policy note says:

“It is not intended that section 53(7) is amended at this time. However, this may be revisited in due course.”

I am just wondering why it will not be amended at this time, how that would be revisited and what the trigger for a revisit in due course would be.