Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 September 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1244 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Liz Smith

Is it not also appropriate to have consistency as well, because that allows us to measure against a period of time, particularly given that, as we have mentioned today, it will be an on-going process for some time? Surely it is important to have consistency in the statistics against which you are measuring.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Liz Smith

Mr Roberts, you have been clear in your view that, although some of the principles behind the bill might be laudable, you do not think that it is the right thing to do at this juncture. Is that the view of your colleagues who are chief executives of other health boards? Is there a general feeling that, although you might like to do some of these things, that huge structural change is not appropriate just now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you for those helpful answers.

Ms Congreve, in your written submission, you raise concerns about the use of data. For example, you say that the financial memorandum states that some of the estimates of inflation are taken from the Office for National Statistics but that you understood them to be from the Bank of England. Have you had that issue clarified with the Scottish Government? Have you asked the Government why it did not use the Scottish Fiscal Commission forecasts and, if so, did you get any clarity on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

Mr Mason cited the example of college regionalisation, which represented a substantial change to the college sector. I also remember the passage of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill, which was a huge bill. At the beginning of those processes, there were issues with the accuracy of the financial memorandums to the bills. Such substantial pieces of legislation take a lot of time to go through Parliament. In addition, at this time cost inflation is rising substantially, which will affect the financial memorandum, over time.

The setting up of a national care service is a huge policy change. I will not argue about the merits and demerits of that policy change, but the financial memorandum that accompanies it is really important. I feel that, at the moment, we are not in a position to make a very good judgment, because we do not have enough information.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

Do you accept that we have moved too quickly? Obviously, you have to take evidence from stakeholders who will be on the front line in delivering what will, in effect, be a new system. Would it have been better to take a slightly different approach to designing the bill so that we had a more substantial financial memorandum with greater detail than we have at present?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

That was helpful.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

I put on the record similar concerns to those that my three colleagues have spoken about so far. The financial memorandum is an important part of any bill or legislation, and it is important that, when we pass bills, they are good law. Good law has certain principles—namely, it has to have clarity of purpose, it has to be understood and it has to be workable, but it also has to have a strong evidence base. Although we are considering only the financial memorandum and not the wider policy commitments, the committee is struggling with the lack of an evidence base.

You have just given an answer to Michelle Thomson that makes it clear that work is being done on an on-going basis and that the information will be updated. Our problem is that we have to scrutinise the financial memorandum. Do you accept the criticism that has been levelled at you by the people who will give evidence later this morning and others who have provided written submissions? The convener described it as “excoriating” criticism. Do you accept that those people have a point and that there is not enough information for them to make a value judgment about how to proceed?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

I understand fully why people might wish to see a policy change—you are right that a lot of people would like change in delivery of health and social care and how it is organised. However, this is about the procedure and how the change can best be put into practice. The stakeholders who are giving evidence to you and the committee are not comfortable with the process, in which they are, in effect, being left in the dark when it comes to many of the costs, which have not been laid out. Do you accept that that criticism must be addressed?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

Ms Wearing, you made an interesting point about IJBs in response to an earlier question from Michelle Thomson. You said that you felt that there was scope for improvement. What did you mean by that, given the role that IJBs have in the context of care? Would that have any financial implications?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Liz Smith

Given the concerns that you rightly have about the proposed changes, do you think that there are changes that could be made to the IJB system that would help us to achieve the aims and objectives that everyone wants to achieve, but without having to go through the major overhaul that is proposed in the bill?