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I am most interested in how we empower local communities. As you rightly said, Professor Mitchell, in the little podcast in which you were interviewed by Professor Roy, if we are going to get local communities to deliver well, they have to feel empowered and trusted. I am particularly interested in trust because, let us be honest, we are not in a very good place at the moment for politics and trust—my party has some responsibility for that.

I worry that, due to the pandemic, our Governments have become more interventionist and have had to take more decisions as a state, partly out of necessity and partly out of design, and that that has made it more difficult for local communities to feel empowered. Is it possible for local communities to become imbued with trust if we have Governments that are a bit more interventionist?

When it comes to health boards, for example, one of the things that was extremely impressive in the first wave of Covid was how well hospitals coped with the intense pressure at that time. I heard more than once that that was because doctors and other clinicians took charge of how wards were organised to look after people with Covid and those who did not have it but nonetheless had very serious issues. On schools, I heard that, because teachers were in charge of their schools instead of being at the behest of a lot of Government edicts, they got on better.

What I am interested in—and I think that you are, too—is whether, if that continues into the future, it will mean that our Governments will have to be less statist in their approach. Will they have to free up or perhaps devolve some areas to local authorities so that our Governments can get on with the business of governing? Instead of taking a bureaucratic, top-down and do-as-I-say approach, they can work on a free-thinking level. Am I correct in my interpretation of your view on that?

Yes. I am interested in the strong commitment that the Scottish Government gave on extra medical places five years ago. It said that, in the intervening five-year period, we would have those extra 190 places in medical schools. I am interested in whether that £5.2 million is part of that commitment or is something new.

Yes.

Education has been prioritised as a big part of the recovery—certainly according to many of the witnesses who have attended the committee. That is quite a large chunk of money within the education and skills portfolio, so I am interested to know whether it is for the further and higher education budget. If I could get some information on that, I would be grateful.

Thank you.

I have two questions for clarification. One of the transfers from the health and social care budget to education and skills is £5.2 million in respect of additional medical student places. Is that for the 190 extra medical places that the Scottish Government said in 2016 would be provided by 2021?

That is on page 13 of our paper, under “Education and Skills”. There is a total of £30.2 million, and there is a line for

“Additional funding to support Education Recovery”.

What does that consist of?

The logic of that is that, if you are going to change the budgeting format, a higher percentage of the budget will come from central Government and it will be open to local government to choose how it spends it.

Could I ask the other two gentlemen the same question? Professor Mitchell rightly points out that this raises questions about accountability. Would the organisation of local government have to change so that accountability was enhanced around how it was spending its money? Is empowering local communities possible within the existing framework?

Yes, I would. I thank committee members for giving up their time to listen to what I have to say.

Most people around the table are aware that, during the 15 years that I have been in the Parliament, outdoor education has been a strong personal interest. As time has gone on, I have been struck by how much it means to many members across the political spectrum. You will know from recent members’ business debates and discussions that we have had on the subject that it is capturing the imagination.

In relation to the Covid situation, outdoor education and all the assets that it brings are vital to young people’s wellbeing. It is clear from what members have said in debates that there is an issue in relation to pressures on education and, especially, outdoor education centres.

I have convened the cross-party group on sport for some time. There is a distinction between sport and outdoor education, and one of the gaps in the Parliament is that we do not have a sufficiently discrete group on outdoor education. I spoke to various colleagues across the political spectrum when thinking about setting up the group, and they are very keen that I do so.

That is where we are. I did an informal consultation about it and spoke to a lot of people with whom I have considerable contact in the outdoor education world. We agreed that not only would it help the Parliament to engage with that increasingly important sector but it would help local authorities, schools and people who have a strong interest in the unmeasurable aspect of education, which I would defend as being the most important. We all feel passionately about that.

Those are the basic reasons for the group, convener. I set out its purpose in my paper.