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That is not my experience at all; in fact, it is quite the reverse. A lot of people would like to get involved in this kind of thing, because—I cannot say this often enough—outdoor education is about providing skills for our young people and building their resilience. A lot of trusts support young people, many of whom are from disadvantaged communities. That is absolutely right and proper, and it is what we have to do through the bill.

I am determined that the bill be inclusive and that we ensure that a lot of youngsters who do not currently get the opportunity to participate in outdoor education get that opportunity. Trust funds and philanthropists are keen to do that, because they know that, whether in relation to the economy or to society, it is in everybody’s interests to provide young people with the skills and the attitude that we need in modern Scotland.

No, I do not think so. The evidence that was provided by outdoor education centres last week and to the cross-party group shows that more centres in Scotland are doing a phenomenal job with additional support for learning pupils, some of whom have very considerable disabilities. There are some very moving stories. Those do not relate to the financial memorandum, but I think that the Education, Children and Young People Committee will be interested in them.

Scotland is much more aware of its responsibilities to cater for additional support for learning pupils, and that is articulated through the principles behind curriculum for excellence. The Ardroy Outdoor Education Centre and the Outward Bound Trust have done a huge amount to ensure that those youngsters get a really good and positive experience. In Scotland, the level of care for, as well as the number of, young people with serious disabilities or very specialist needs is increasing, and so is the provision for them. Everybody recognises that, to be properly inclusive, we have to ensure that those youngsters get such opportunities.

You are quite right, Mr Greer; I have heard comments to that effect, but I also heard Nick March’s response to that suggestion. I think that the word “profiteering” was used, but he said that that is not happening and that providers are very keen to ensure that it never will, because their work is not about making vast profits out of young people’s lives.

One thing that struck me in last week’s evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee was that providers have taken great trouble to ensure that outdoor experience is articulated with the curriculum for excellence. Pupils are not just out in canoes or climbing Munros—there is far more flexibility. I am particularly struck by something that I hope will strike members of that committee when they go on their visit, which is that centres are far more diverse than they used to be. None of them is into making big sums of money—nor could they be, in the current fiscal climate—so I do not think that there will be profiteering or vast increases in the amounts charged. I do not see that happening.

Yes, I think that there is a discussion to be had about that. Indeed, it will not just be the centres themselves that will have to plan ahead; schools, too, will need time. The guidance will need to ensure that there is time to plan ahead, and it might well be that we will have to move to the next academic session to do that. That is a discussion that I have been having with the Scottish Government.

There is a discussion to be had about that very sensible question, which you also raised at the Education, Children and Young People Committee. It is true that some parents make a considerable commitment. Successful fundraising programmes in schools also provide quite a lot of extra money. There is considerable enthusiasm about that, because undertaking such fundraising is a real-life learning experience. You are on to something important.

I think that there is some scope for variability in how outdoor education is funded. Quite a lot of parents can well afford to cover the cost with no trouble at all, but a lot of parents cannot, and I am concerned about the parents who cannot afford it, because their children lose out.

We could not rely on it completely, of course, because there is not enough to do what we want to do. However, it is interesting that, in many cases, the choices that are being made in schools are such that the existing PEF money is being directed into outdoor education. It would be helpful to supplement that with the creative and imaginative ideas that have worked in other jurisdictions. You asked whether money should be ring fenced, and my answer is, “Possibly.” However, we can persuade the Scottish Government that there are imaginative ways to pursue a range of funding options.

I understand that. However, I come back to the point that the ballpark figures in the financial memorandum and the Scottish Government costings are not that far apart. That is an important point.

As the centres will tell you, when it comes to bed-space availability and demand, some of them are booked up quite some time in advance. That is important. That demand will provide them with greater income. It is true that some centres have issues, but they are adamant that the bill could help them. As I said, the arithmetic that we have done is, I think, quite accurate.

That is also a very good and important question. If we are to build a trust model, as some other countries have done, we will have to ensure that there is sustainability, because you are quite right: there has to be a year-on-year funding commitment. We cannot just have it for one year, because it could then all fall to bits. It is important that we have sustainable funding, but I have been pretty encouraged by what the Scottish Government has said about the bill and ways to ensure that we make the provision sustainable.

That is true, convener. Demand is not even across the year. Nonetheless, you would be surprised at how booking is increasing in months that we would not normally have expected, in years gone by. The outdoor centres are very pleased about the fact that some of that booking is being spread across the year.

There is a question for some—not all—outdoor centres about having to update their provision. I do not think that that will prevent the numbers of youngsters who will likely go, but it is nonetheless important to have not just quantity but quality. It has to be a good experience for young people qualitatively as well as quantitatively. If dormitory areas, kitchen areas or lounge areas are not up to scratch, that is an issue.

I will mention one thing that I have proposed in the bill, although I note that this is perhaps not relevant to the financial memorandum. School inspection is taking a much greater interest in what goes on through the extracurricular side of education. The education authorities are very interested in inspecting a school experience not just through what happens in that particular school but through where schools take their young people to get that extra dimension. I would like to see that include looking at the quality of provision. That is an important aspect for the education inspectorate—I have spoken with it several times—to consider.

I am absolutely 100 per cent convinced that this is about providing our young people with the skills, confidence and resilience that we need in Scotland—particularly since the Covid crisis, given that anxiety is so powerfully strong among many young people.

Anything that we can do from an educational perspective to improve the opportunities for our young people—particularly when it comes to working in the outside world or going on to college or university—is absolutely fundamental.

One of the most important effects of the bill would be if we get a more skilled, confident and able workforce than we have now and inspire more people to come into the workforce, instead of having a high level of economic inactivity. I base that on my experience of teaching and of almost 20 years in politics, and on my understanding of what we can do with young people when they have these experiences. The evidence is so strong that that nails it for me.

You asked me how that fits with my own party’s policies on public finance. We want to build in resilience and ensure that any spending commitments or tax reductions that we make are in line with greater fiscal transparency, which, rightly, is a big thing for this committee. That is where it fits in.

Primarily, the bill is about giving our youngsters a better offer as part of their education. I am really passionate about that.