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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 1294 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

If the £36 million figure is accurate, what is your estimate of how much you will be able to recover?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Precisely.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

But your colleague Shona Robison, the finance secretary, said to the committee two weeks ago that there are certain decisions that the Scottish Government will not be able to pursue as it would like to do. She said that the roll-out of free school meals will not be as extensive as the Scottish Government would like. That means, I would hope, that there is a conscious decision within Government to decide how the money would be better spent on other things. However, others would argue that the provision of free school meals is a very important part of the strategy to tackle poverty. I ask again, what are the decision-making criteria that the Government uses to decide which areas have the best outcomes in tackling poverty?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Is it also a recognition by the Scottish Government that various universal policies cannot continue in the future because we simply cannot afford them?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Cabinet secretary, you said in answer to the convener that you were very disappointed about the report in The Scotsman about the £36 million and that the article was not accurate. Do you mean that £36 million is not an accurate figure?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

I understand that, but it is a very important amount of money. Given what the convener was, rightly, asking, we have a duty to scrutinise that. If the convener agrees, it would be helpful if we could get an update on that fairly quickly. It matters for the budget because it is a large sum. It would be helpful for us to have an update as soon as possible.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

I understand that that has implications for budgets in general, which brings me nicely to my next point. The convener twice attempted to ask you about the opportunity costs—again, it comes back to the scrutiny of this Parliament. On the basis of what modelling does the Scottish Government believe that its social security approaches are providing better benefits and better outcomes in delivering the anti-poverty strategy compared with college funding, schools funding, early years funding and many other things? What actual opportunity cost measurement is the Scottish Government undertaking to provide the evidence for its policy decisions, which allows financial scrutiny by this committee to show whether those policies are the right ones?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

But cabinet secretary, the Fiscal Commission is predicting that, between the coming budget and 2029-30, the social security budget will go up by nearly 30 per cent. That is a huge increase. The committee is interested to know what might be cut in relation to that spend. We have heard this morning that various other portfolios are complaining bitterly about a lack of money. In order to make judgments on the issue, the committee has to see what the outcomes are. That question is a huge issue for the Scottish Government, given what the Scottish Fiscal Commission says is a completely unsustainable social security benefit system for the future.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Your colleague Shona Robison is arguing strongly that you cannot roll out universalism to a greater extent because you simply cannot afford it.

To come back on the point that you raised earlier, the Government wants to target those who are most in need. That is what we signed up to in 2018. I suggest that the policy of universalism across the board is simply not sustainable for the Scottish budget.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

We will leave it there. I am sure that the debate will continue.