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That is a good question. I have to say that, even after considerable research, it is difficult to tell how many schools have their own minibuses, how many minibuses there are within local authorities or, even within local authorities, how much of that service is deployed to schools. A lot of schools use coach services. Again, it comes back to the numbers. The average school minibus now seats 17. That includes the driver and will almost inevitably include two other members of staff. Realistically, each minibus of the type that we normally see on the roads has only about 14 or 15 pupils in it. A coach can take up to 44 pupils. I have a lot of experience of organising minibuses and so on, and there is considerable variability. It also depends on how far you are going and the capacity of the outdoor centre when you get there.

We do not have all the data on that. One of the fundamental issues is that we need more data. I am very pleased that the Education, Children and Young People Committee has written to the outdoor centres to get a bit more intelligence back from them about how many people are pitching up.

It will in some cases. Let us not forget that, because of Covid, there were two years of virtually nothing happening. The Scottish Government very kindly provided £2 million in the first year and an additional £1 million to ensure that the centres were able to stay open. I was very grateful for that at the time because, had it not happened, more of the centres would have shut down.

If somebody goes for a state-of-the-art outdoor education centre, where there is not only an improvement in the buildings and facilities for young people but an update to outdoor activities—if specialists are brought in to do rock climbing or canoeing or whatever—the costs will increase. That might have a knock-on effect, so we would have to be mindful of that.

No. Under the bill, it is not compulsory for everyone to take part in outdoor education—I have never said that it is. I want the opportunity to be made available for all young people, but it is not compulsory. Some families will choose not to participate, just as some do now, for very good reasons. The bill is not about making outdoor education compulsory, which would be the wrong thing to do. It is about ensuring that there are opportunities for more young people than is the case currently. The University of Edinburgh’s analysis from 2019 shows that about a third of pupils from the secondary sector and roughly a quarter of pupils from the primary sector get such provision, which means that two thirds of secondary school pupils and three quarters of primary school pupils do not.

That is also a very good and important question. If we are to build a trust model, as some other countries have done, we will have to ensure that there is sustainability, because you are quite right: there has to be a year-on-year funding commitment. We cannot just have it for one year, because it could then all fall to bits. It is important that we have sustainable funding, but I have been pretty encouraged by what the Scottish Government has said about the bill and ways to ensure that we make the provision sustainable.

That is true, convener. Demand is not even across the year. Nonetheless, you would be surprised at how booking is increasing in months that we would not normally have expected, in years gone by. The outdoor centres are very pleased about the fact that some of that booking is being spread across the year.

There is a question for some—not all—outdoor centres about having to update their provision. I do not think that that will prevent the numbers of youngsters who will likely go, but it is nonetheless important to have not just quantity but quality. It has to be a good experience for young people qualitatively as well as quantitatively. If dormitory areas, kitchen areas or lounge areas are not up to scratch, that is an issue.

I will mention one thing that I have proposed in the bill, although I note that this is perhaps not relevant to the financial memorandum. School inspection is taking a much greater interest in what goes on through the extracurricular side of education. The education authorities are very interested in inspecting a school experience not just through what happens in that particular school but through where schools take their young people to get that extra dimension. I would like to see that include looking at the quality of provision. That is an important aspect for the education inspectorate—I have spoken with it several times—to consider.

I am absolutely 100 per cent convinced that this is about providing our young people with the skills, confidence and resilience that we need in Scotland—particularly since the Covid crisis, given that anxiety is so powerfully strong among many young people.

Anything that we can do from an educational perspective to improve the opportunities for our young people—particularly when it comes to working in the outside world or going on to college or university—is absolutely fundamental.

One of the most important effects of the bill would be if we get a more skilled, confident and able workforce than we have now and inspire more people to come into the workforce, instead of having a high level of economic inactivity. I base that on my experience of teaching and of almost 20 years in politics, and on my understanding of what we can do with young people when they have these experiences. The evidence is so strong that that nails it for me.

You asked me how that fits with my own party’s policies on public finance. We want to build in resilience and ensure that any spending commitments or tax reductions that we make are in line with greater fiscal transparency, which, rightly, is a big thing for this committee. That is where it fits in.

Primarily, the bill is about giving our youngsters a better offer as part of their education. I am really passionate about that.

I am sure that that will come out in the budget. I think that you know my own views and I have said in response to recent budgets that there are things that we would not do quite so much of, because of other priorities.

Teachers really matter. They can inspire our young people and they work alongside parents. Preventative spending to give young people better opportunities is a no-brainer.

You are quite right, Mr Greer; I have heard comments to that effect, but I also heard Nick March’s response to that suggestion. I think that the word “profiteering” was used, but he said that that is not happening and that providers are very keen to ensure that it never will, because their work is not about making vast profits out of young people’s lives.

One thing that struck me in last week’s evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee was that providers have taken great trouble to ensure that outdoor experience is articulated with the curriculum for excellence. Pupils are not just out in canoes or climbing Munros—there is far more flexibility. I am particularly struck by something that I hope will strike members of that committee when they go on their visit, which is that centres are far more diverse than they used to be. None of them is into making big sums of money—nor could they be, in the current fiscal climate—so I do not think that there will be profiteering or vast increases in the amounts charged. I do not see that happening.

No, but I would have thought—this is certainly my experience of young teachers—that if they see existing staff participating and having a really beneficial time, and youngsters under their care having a beneficial time, too, they will want to participate as well.

The issue of teacher contracts is important, and we have to accept that what the unions are saying to us in that respect is very important. However, I do not want to feel that this kind of educational experience will put off teachers and that they will just walk away. I would have to explore further with the unions their comments about why that might be happen.

Yes, I think that there is a discussion to be had about that. Indeed, it will not just be the centres themselves that will have to plan ahead; schools, too, will need time. The guidance will need to ensure that there is time to plan ahead, and it might well be that we will have to move to the next academic session to do that. That is a discussion that I have been having with the Scottish Government.