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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 December 2025
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Displaying 1355 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Liz Smith

Thank you for your detailed answer. The key point is that the economic forecasters, not least the Scottish Fiscal Commission, are warning strongly about the difficulties with the fiscal sustainability of the social security budget because it is increasing at a faster rate than in other parts of the United Kingdom. The question is whether the evidence that the Scottish Government has about the effectiveness of its policy making is enough to ensure that its policies are the right policies.

There is evidence to suggest that the Scottish child payment is effective enough, but, when it comes to the adult disability payment and some of the other disability payments, there seems to be a lack of evidence. It is all very well to talk about having a more beneficent system that is based on fairness and so on—we all signed up to that. However, we also signed up to a welfare system that delivers to those who are most in need. At the moment, we seem to be increasing social security benefits at quite a rate, and there are questions about whether all of that money is going to those who are most in need and whether the policy is having the unintended consequence of preventing some people from going back into the labour market. That concerns us all, I think, from a fiscal sustainability angle, and I would be interested to learn what work the Scottish Government is doing to address that very serious concern.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Liz Smith

Does that mean that, within the vague trends that we have, it is very difficult to predict whether policies that try to reduce the amount of economic inactivity will be able to get that right? Is that one of the major problems?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Liz Smith

I will concentrate on the sustainability of the social security budget. At the start of the meeting, the convener flagged up the cabinet secretary’s statistics, which say that the social security payment budget is going up from £6.8 billion in 2025-26 to £8.8 billion in 2029-30. That is almost a 30 per cent increase in four years. Given that you say that the Scottish child payment is effective delivery of social security payments, what work is the Scottish Government doing on the effectiveness of other aspects of the social security budget? I am asking particularly about adult disability payments, which are ballooning out of control.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Scottish Commission on Social Security

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Liz Smith

I will ask about universalism. Mr Pybus, as you are well aware, there is a massive issue around the principle of universalism. It is very nice to say that, in theory, we want to pay out benefits to people universally. As the Government describes it, it is vitally important to our social contract with the people of Scotland that we try to provide benefits across the board. However, if you look at what the medium-term financial strategy told us yesterday, and particularly at what the Scottish Fiscal Commission is telling the Finance and Public Administration Committee, we cannot afford it all. That is the bottom line.

When it comes to supporting those who are most in need, do you think that the principle of universalism is the right approach, or do you think we have to be a bit more careful and try to target those who are in considerable need first?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Scottish Commission on Social Security

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Liz Smith

I am not asking about the policy role; I am asking about some of the evidence that SCoSS has provided, but I will leave it there. I just think that we could benefit from SCoSS’s experience if it could tell us what we should be looking at.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Scottish Commission on Social Security

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Liz Smith

I ask the question because you have considerable experience of dealing with the broad issues in the social security system and you have had considerable success in doing that. It is incumbent on this committee and others to listen to that experience. When it comes to advising the Government about the facts that it will have to interrogate before presenting its policy, it is very important that it is given guidance on where it can make the biggest difference, especially to people in poverty. That might involve some difficult decisions, particularly, as I say, against the backdrop that the Scottish Fiscal Commission is providing. I am just interested to know whether—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Scottish Commission on Social Security

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Liz Smith

Forgive me, but I am picking up on what is in our papers. I think that this is a very important part of the whole social security debate, and any advice that SCoSS can provide to us on that evidence would be very helpful.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Scottish Commission on Social Security

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Liz Smith

Forgive me, convener, but I think that SCoSS has considerable experience that can help us.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Liz Smith

It is very important, because the Parliament has to work well.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Liz Smith

Is there also a concern that a number of bills that have come to the Parliament have been subject to a very considerable number of amendments, particularly at stages 2 and 3? It is becoming much more difficult for the Parliament to get through Government business because of the size and complexity of a lot of those bills. There are many cases: I can think of three bills, including the Education (Scotland) Bill, to which a large number of amendments have been lodged, but then they have not been moved or have been rejected. Is that aspect of the legislative process a concern for the Government?