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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 January 2026
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Displaying 1392 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Liz Smith

What is happening about drilling down on some of the detail? You mentioned the health service, so let us take that as an example. Some health boards are more effective than others in aspiring to the aims and ambitions of the Scottish Government. You and I have sat through discussions in NHS Tayside, for example, in which there was a determination to try to learn from other health boards where there is good practice. Is the Government going into that level of detail on how effective the spend can be in different portfolios?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Liz Smith

I want to ask you about the second part of the statement that you gave on 2 September and what you have said this morning about identifying programmes that are proven to work. You have given some examples of where the Government has some focus. The convener suggested that there is a corollary to that. I know that you are not going to reveal any details about the budget, but if there are programmes that are clearly not working and have not been working through previous budgets, what action will the Government take in areas where the spending has not provided the outcomes that the Government would like? Is the Scottish Government in a position to say, “Here are the programmes that are working well, and here is the evidence that supports that, but here is evidence that other programmes are not working well and where money could be saved or, in some cases, transferred”? Is the Government at that stage?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Liz Smith

Is that with a view to making cuts in certain areas?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Liz Smith

Do you feel that those very difficult decisions are sufficiently transparent? It is an extremely difficult task for the Government, in tight fiscal circumstances, to make the right decisions about what is working well and what is not working well. Is there sufficient transparency in the evidence on which policies are most effective in delivering for the Government and which policies are not effective and should therefore potentially be scrapped?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Liz Smith

It is just like your manifesto of 2021.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Cabinet secretary, you said in answer to the convener that you were very disappointed about the report in The Scotsman about the £36 million and that the article was not accurate. Do you mean that £36 million is not an accurate figure?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

I understand that, but it is a very important amount of money. Given what the convener was, rightly, asking, we have a duty to scrutinise that. If the convener agrees, it would be helpful if we could get an update on that fairly quickly. It matters for the budget because it is a large sum. It would be helpful for us to have an update as soon as possible.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

I understand that that has implications for budgets in general, which brings me nicely to my next point. The convener twice attempted to ask you about the opportunity costs—again, it comes back to the scrutiny of this Parliament. On the basis of what modelling does the Scottish Government believe that its social security approaches are providing better benefits and better outcomes in delivering the anti-poverty strategy compared with college funding, schools funding, early years funding and many other things? What actual opportunity cost measurement is the Scottish Government undertaking to provide the evidence for its policy decisions, which allows financial scrutiny by this committee to show whether those policies are the right ones?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

But cabinet secretary, the Fiscal Commission is predicting that, between the coming budget and 2029-30, the social security budget will go up by nearly 30 per cent. That is a huge increase. The committee is interested to know what might be cut in relation to that spend. We have heard this morning that various other portfolios are complaining bitterly about a lack of money. In order to make judgments on the issue, the committee has to see what the outcomes are. That question is a huge issue for the Scottish Government, given what the Scottish Fiscal Commission says is a completely unsustainable social security benefit system for the future.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Liz Smith

Your colleague Shona Robison is arguing strongly that you cannot roll out universalism to a greater extent because you simply cannot afford it.

To come back on the point that you raised earlier, the Government wants to target those who are most in need. That is what we signed up to in 2018. I suggest that the policy of universalism across the board is simply not sustainable for the Scottish budget.