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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 March 2026
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Displaying 1479 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

The challenge for this committee in examining social security spend is knowing which policies are making the biggest difference to the Scottish Government’s broad aims and which are less important in that sense. We all want to achieve better outcomes in social security delivery, but it is difficult to understand that because we do not have the relevant data.

That begs a question, which the committee raised in its report, about universal payments. If you run the argument that we are spending too much on social security, because we are not getting enough money in through revenue payments, there is a strong argument for examining universalism and what is and is not effective.

I do not want you to comment on Government policy—and I know that you will not do that—but is it your understanding that that debate is hampered because we do not have some of that detail?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

Thank you—that was very helpful.

At paragraph 62 of its report, the committee goes on to say that we are

“not convinced that the Scottish Government has set out sufficient evidence to support its argument that the future social security budget is sustainable.”

That leads on to something slightly different, but it is on the same theme, because, in effect, it says that we do not have enough information available to provide the evidence that the social security budget—which, as we know, is increasing quite fast—will be sustainable. It is all part of the same thing: there is not enough detail. Is that a fair comment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

Can you give some examples of data that is not there that would be helpful?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

When will that RAPID system come on stream?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

I think that it is a very big missing piece of the jigsaw. In effect, we are getting information about the investment in Scotland on social security spend, and the Scottish Government tells us that the reason for the increase is that there is a future investment—which might go back to what you were saying about preventative spend—but we are not getting the detail on exactly how that will happen. That is the problem. In terms of the actual social security spend, we are not sure which areas of policy are having the best possible impact—for example, on child poverty—and which aspects of increased spending are almost having the opposite effect, in that they are not providing the benefits. That is quite a serious concern. The committee said that we did not feel that the medium-term financial strategy was giving enough information on that detail.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

On the recommendation in paragraph 73 of our report, we made it very clear that we wanted a debate on universalism, with some study of which universal payments are working best and which are perhaps not.

In response, there was agreement from the Scottish Government that the economic and fiscal environment remains “very challenging”, which means that there are “tough choices” to make. It went on to say that it is developing an approach to public value that will

“embed a framework for understanding spending proposals”

in universal terms. Are you aware of what that framework is or of what is happening in terms of measuring that public value when it comes to universal payments?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

To be clear, to your knowledge, there is no study or framework, at present, that will investigate which universal payments are working most effectively and which are not.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 20 January 2026

Liz Smith

It is a very complex area but, nonetheless, an important one. There has been exponential growth in social security spend. It has been rising, and it has been proved that, in some areas, it has been rising at a faster rate than in other parts of the UK.

The driver has to be the effectiveness of the policy commitments. At the moment, it is hard to come to conclusions about what is working well. For example, there is some evidence that the Scottish child payment has been working well. As you have said, Professor Bell, there are areas in which people who are well off can well afford the benefits—the universal payments, I should say—and so do not actually need them. It is a challenge to make social and economic policy more effective.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

National Performing Companies (Economic Impact)

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Liz Smith

My final remark on that is that one of the good things that are happening is that His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Education in Scotland is starting to look at the extracurricular dimension as part of the quality provision in schools. That is a huge benefit, because, as you say, that is the wellbeing aspect and the quality side of it. The Education (Scotland) Act 2025, which went through the Parliament four or five months ago, asks inspectors to look at that extra dimension, to which you all contribute so effectively. In previous times, that was not really measured and we did not get much feedback on it, so that change is a very good thing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

National Performing Companies (Economic Impact)

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Liz Smith

Good.