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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 1828 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

My reading is that it is all very well to have the mission, but given the figures that we have already discussed, it has not been a roaring success, so far. That is just my view.

I want to move on to discuss the clear link between poverty and drug deaths. In 2021, National Records of Scotland made clear the link between the two. It produced a report that stated:

“In 2020, after adjusting for age, people in the most deprived areas were 18 times as likely to have a drug-related death as those in the least deprived areas … That ratio has almost doubled in 20 years. In the early 2000s, those in the most deprived areas were around 10 times as likely to have a drug-related death as those in the least deprived areas.”

Things have got worse, really. Why do you think things have got worse?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Thanks very much, convener, and good morning to you all. It has been a really interesting session so far.

I want to pick up on a few things that have come up already—I will stick to the matter of residential rehab. The Auditor General says on page 33 of his report that there are barriers for people accessing residential rehab. He says that

“many people are identified as unsuitable”

for it

“because they have mental health issues ... there are no local facilities and for whom moving family and children would be impractical .... they are not ready to cope with the high intensity of a residential programme”

or

“they are not able to meet the requirements of an abstinence-based approach.”

Given that he is quite clear about that point, do you think that there are people who need residential rehab who are missing out on it?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

I accept that not everyone is suitable for residential rehab and that it is not a magic bullet. That is true. However, my basic question is this: are the barriers too high in some cases? Are there people who might be suitable but who are missing out because of the strict criteria?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

I will ask about another area. Colin Beattie raised a point about younger people. Anecdotally, we read that younger people are perhaps not drinking as much as their parents did. I can testify to that. We have read various reports that there are now younger people who just do not drink at all. Have you got any data for Scotland? If that is the case, it would suggest that, at some point, the alcohol problems that we have will lessen.

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay. That would be great.

Maggie, you said that street benzos are more prevalent in Scotland than they are elsewhere. Do we have any idea why that is or has been the case?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

There are a couple of other areas that I want to ask about quickly. You have already mentioned minimum unit pricing. In your letter to the Auditor General, you repeatedly called the policy “world-leading”, saying that it

“has saved hundreds of lives”.

What is the evidence for that?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

But how were you able to link the two? How was that possible?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

How far do you think it should go? Should we just keep increasing the price of drink in Scotland, year on year?

Public Audit Committee

“Alcohol and drug services”

Meeting date: 19 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Yes, a very brief question, convener.

Caroline, in your letter, you list a number of stakeholders that you are liaising with, such as the Scottish Health Action on Alcohol Problems, Alcohol Focus Scotland and the Scottish Alcohol Counselling Consortium. It struck me that nobody on that list is actually involved in the drinks sector—the Scottish Beer and Pubs Association would be just one example. Do you also take advice from people who are involved in serving the public?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Yes, the deputy convener helpfully touched on some areas that I want to ask you about.

Let us return to the so-called “national conversation”. You say repeatedly, in report after report, that we need reform. You have made that point very clear in this report, and you touch on this “national conversation”.

I do not know whether such a national conversation has been going on. The health secretary announced that there was to be one—I know that he spent some time talking to football fans, but I am not aware that a national conversation around the health service is actually starting. Have you seen any evidence of that?