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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 April 2025
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Displaying 1828 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

Good morning. I want to follow up on the question about brokerage. People watching this meeting might not know what brokerage is. If I might put it in layman’s terms, it is about bailing out boards because they are overspending and need extra money. To follow up on Colin Beattie’s question, which I do not think was fully answered, what happens if a board says, “We just can’t do it—we need extra money”? Mr Gray, I know that you want to move away from that model—and rightly so—but there will be circumstances where boards just cannot meet their budgets. What will you do then?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

Are you saying that the conversation has started?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

Oh, it has.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

You mentioned varicose veins.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

In that continuing conversation, are you considering things that are of limited clinical value? I point you to what the Auditor General says:

“The Scottish Government and NHS boards should:

Ahead of 2025/26, jointly identify areas of limited clinical value and consider how services can be provided more efficiently, or withdrawn”.

When I asked him about that, the Auditor General told me:

“The Government itself, in its clinical strategy from 2016, cited a source that said that 20 per cent of medical interventions were of limited value. In our view, there needs to be transparency around what interventions exactly, in the Government’s view, are of limited clinical value”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 12 December 2024; c11.]

Can you tell me what medicines and procedures are of limited or low clinical value and whether you have decided which ones you do not want to proceed with?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Graham Simpson

GP practices are private businesses. On a practical level, you cannot make them do anything. The cabinet secretary might have the ambition to end the 8 am rush, but, realistically, he cannot enforce that, can he?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Graham Simpson

Okay. We will await developments—or not.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Graham Simpson

That is good—it gives me a degree of confidence and hope that the yard can win new work, which is, I think, what everyone wants.

I want to ask about something that came up in last week’s committee meeting. We heard that various pay-offs, including some that had not been approved by the Government, were made to staff at the yard. In fact, there was one instance of an employee, who had been transferred to the yard, being paid after he had set up a limited company, which struck me as outrageous. That should not be happening. Mr Irwin, is it fair to say that, as you did not know about that case, you had taken your eye off the ball?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Graham Simpson

That is good. We will stick to Ferguson Marine for now, given that it has been the theme of a few questions.

I have a question about the procurement for the small vessel replacement programme, which goes back to a question that the convener asked. If CMAL, which is the procuring authority, were to advise that another bidder should get the contract but ministers overruled it and the contract went to Ferguson Marine, would the reasoning for that decision be published?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Graham Simpson

Were that to happen, what level of detail should the committee expect to get? I am not saying that it will happen, but if it did happen, what could we expect to be told?