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You do not control that and we do not control it. We know where it is controlled. Consumers must surely be crying out for that help. Will we see that major issue covered your report when it comes out, even if you only flag it up to try to influence thinking in another place about how society deals with consumer debt and how we can help people to deal with it better?

I am pretty sure that the committee will be interested in that and in providing whatever assistance we can provide to influence that agenda, because debt is clearly getting worse. Sam Ghibaldan’s figures show that the percentage of households who are in energy debt has increased from 9 per cent to 15 per cent—it has nearly doubled. We need to do something to try to assist. Thanks very much for your answers.

Who do you think that consumers expect to make the changes that they are hoping for? Is it you? Is it bodies such as Trading Standards Scotland? Is it MSPs? When people come to my local office and complain about something, their hope is that something will change, because it merits change. Do they look to you to effect change? David, could consumers look at your report when it comes out next month and say, “That’s great—we raised that issue last year and change is afoot”? Is that a reasonable expectation for consumers to have?

Good morning. My first question is about your relationships with Citizens Advice Scotland, Advice Direct Scotland and Trading Standards Scotland. I would like to explore how local issues on the ground that are raised by consumers in my constituency and other members’ constituencies reach those organisations and then reach you as the national body. How do you gather in the issues that are raised with you so that you can make recommendations and help to influence change through the Scottish Government and other stakeholders?

As you have reported, consumer debt is rising significantly in a range of areas, including local goods and services and energy. Are consumers telling you or anybody else that they need different and better arrangements? If we consider the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the standard 30-day term to pay a bill has not changed for 50 years. David, are consumers telling you, through your engagement with them, that they need better arrangements to help them to manage the debt that they face?

Thanks.

Good morning, cabinet secretary and colleagues. Continuing on the theme of transformation, do you agree with the Accounts Commission’s view that it is becoming increasingly urgent that the transformation agenda takes place?

With the previous panel and in previous meetings, the committee has heard plenty of examples of transformation coming about because of budget pressures or even Covid—the disaster that Covid brought to us meant that we had to radically rethink many things. Is there enough of a balance between reacting to situations, whether it is budget pressures or Covid scenarios, and the ability to think differently and do things differently because we want to and need to?

Thank you very much. I will leave it at that.

The Accounts Commission keeps telling us about the urgency of transformation—that it is urgent to see more councils transforming more quickly, better and so on. Do you get a sense that transformation is happening uniformly across Scotland and that we are seeing a transformation of services around Scotland?

This morning, the Accounts Commission reported on North Ayrshire, saying that, despite facing a budget cut, its performance

“is an exemplar of how to do change and innovation well and other councils can learn from what they are doing and how they are doing it”.

Do councils get the time to share the good practice that is happening around Scotland? We have often asked over recent years whether councils get the chance to see good practice and emulate it, copy it or adapt it in the way that is highlighted in this morning’s Accounts Commission report on North Ayrshire.

Thank you. Your response to that question is very encouraging.

I have another question about the fiscal framework and, specifically, the funding formula. I would like to test whether there is an appetite to look at the funding formula. It has been an issue for many years, and I think that everyone involved with it is scared to touch it or tamper with it in case they lose out. In my view, one of the key components is the impact that population change has on the funding allocation that is given to a local authority. Authorities that are losing population will tend to lose money. If the population in your local authority area drops by 1,000, you face losing up to £2 million. I would imagine that that will be felt in Dumfries and Galloway in particular, and it was felt in parts of Ayrshire, where I am from.

Is there any appetite in COSLA to have a look at that in the next session of the Parliament, to see whether we can make it fairer? I know that there is a floor and ceiling mechanism, but, by and large, if you lose population, you lose money, although the costs of delivering the service to the local community remain the same. Does COSLA see a need to have a look at that in the coming years?