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I am pretty sure that the committee will be interested in that and in providing whatever assistance we can provide to influence that agenda, because debt is clearly getting worse. Sam Ghibaldan’s figures show that the percentage of households who are in energy debt has increased from 9 per cent to 15 per cent—it has nearly doubled. We need to do something to try to assist. Thanks very much for your answers.

Thanks.

Good morning, cabinet secretary and colleagues. Continuing on the theme of transformation, do you agree with the Accounts Commission’s view that it is becoming increasingly urgent that the transformation agenda takes place?

With the previous panel and in previous meetings, the committee has heard plenty of examples of transformation coming about because of budget pressures or even Covid—the disaster that Covid brought to us meant that we had to radically rethink many things. Is there enough of a balance between reacting to situations, whether it is budget pressures or Covid scenarios, and the ability to think differently and do things differently because we want to and need to?

My other question is on the funding formula. I do not know whether you heard the previous evidence session, but I invited our COSLA colleagues to say something about the funding formula and the allocation to councils. As you know, if an authority is losing population, it tends to lose money. Despite the floors and the ceilings and all that, a small rural authority whose population is declining will lose money.

Will the Government consider looking at that formula to try to ensure that that does not happen, particularly for smaller rural authorities, as the costs are higher to deliver services in rural communities? The committee has heard that message over a number of years. Does the Government have a view on that? Does the funding formula need to be tweaked a little?

Thanks, convener, and good morning to everyone on the panel. Sticking with the transformation agenda for a moment, I will ask a straight question. Does transformation only occur when you face a budget pressure, or does it occur elsewhere? I ask Katie Hagmann to give a couple of examples.

Thank you very much. I will leave it at that.

The Accounts Commission keeps telling us about the urgency of transformation—that it is urgent to see more councils transforming more quickly, better and so on. Do you get a sense that transformation is happening uniformly across Scotland and that we are seeing a transformation of services around Scotland?

This morning, the Accounts Commission reported on North Ayrshire, saying that, despite facing a budget cut, its performance

“is an exemplar of how to do change and innovation well and other councils can learn from what they are doing and how they are doing it”.

Do councils get the time to share the good practice that is happening around Scotland? We have often asked over recent years whether councils get the chance to see good practice and emulate it, copy it or adapt it in the way that is highlighted in this morning’s Accounts Commission report on North Ayrshire.

Thank you. Your response to that question is very encouraging.

I have another question about the fiscal framework and, specifically, the funding formula. I would like to test whether there is an appetite to look at the funding formula. It has been an issue for many years, and I think that everyone involved with it is scared to touch it or tamper with it in case they lose out. In my view, one of the key components is the impact that population change has on the funding allocation that is given to a local authority. Authorities that are losing population will tend to lose money. If the population in your local authority area drops by 1,000, you face losing up to £2 million. I would imagine that that will be felt in Dumfries and Galloway in particular, and it was felt in parts of Ayrshire, where I am from.

Is there any appetite in COSLA to have a look at that in the next session of the Parliament, to see whether we can make it fairer? I know that there is a floor and ceiling mechanism, but, by and large, if you lose population, you lose money, although the costs of delivering the service to the local community remain the same. Does COSLA see a need to have a look at that in the coming years?

With your hand on your heart, though, are you able to say that none of that could have happened if SOSE had not been there? You have access to the growth deal money and Scottish Enterprise has not gone away; it is still there serving the whole of Scotland. I am trying to get a handle on the regional element of the picture. What is unique and would have happened only because you were there?

My final question goes to our witnesses from SOSE. I am a great fan of our railways. I take a keen interest in the Kilmarnock to Dumfries line, in the middle of which lies Thornhill. Is SOSE still actively pursuing and promoting the reopening of Thornhill railway station? When I look around Scotland I see a lot of stations reopening. However, most of that is happening in the east and the north and very little of it in the south and the west. Thornhill is slap-bang in the middle of SOSE’s territory in the south of Scotland. Is the reopening of its station a project that you are still keen to support and promote?