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It sounds as if one of the lessons to be learned is to begin that discussion and negotiation about terms and conditions and TUPE transfers a little earlier in the process, so that the staff could look forward to the earliest possible change at the transition point rather than waiting, potentially, up to another year. Is that a fair comment or would it be impossible to do it earlier?

It was a good try.

I have a question for Neil Rennick or perhaps Peter Reekie about the overall costs. When will we know the final cost of the transition process? When will we know the future costs of operating Kilmarnock prison in the public sector compared with the private sector? The public will always want to be assured that they get value for money from anything that we do.

Is there an exit cost associated with this PFI?

Some PFI contracts automatically incur an exit cost when they come to an end. Is there an exit cost in this case?

I am glad to hear that. Thank you.

Good morning, everybody.

First, I will put on the record what a fantastic job Serco did at Kilmarnock Prison during the period of the contract, which has been the past 25 years, and particularly in recent years under the direction of Craig Thomson. I was happy to be part of that process over many years and am still part of the transition process.

I would like to get a flavour, perhaps from Neil Rennick to begin with, about the transition process itself. When did the transition process begin? When will we see it completed? Of course, there are a number of issues to discuss with you about the process itself. Could you give the committee members a flavour of the transition process and the key issues and themes that had to be covered?

Could you and your colleagues describe particular issues that we are currently dealing with in the transition process? There is perhaps an expectation that when a transition is announced it can happen overnight, but we know that that is not possible. I would be obliged to you—I am sure that all committee members would be interested—if we could hear what the main issues are in the transition process. Are there issues about salaries, conditions or staffing, for example? Could you give us a flavour of what you have had to face?

Good morning to everyone on the panel.

I want to go back to a point about tenancy deposits, which Gordon MacDonald raised. As you know, at the end of a tenancy, a deposit may be withheld in full or in part by a landlord, depending on a number of factors. That is usually to do with the condition that the property was left in at the end of the tenancy. How is the assessment of the condition of a property when a tenant leaves seen to be fair? When a tenant leaves, are they still legally entitled to pursue the deposit?

Is any amount of a tenant’s deposit that is withheld for those reasons part of the £4 million that Gordon MacDonald referred to, or is that completely removed and deducted and gone for ever?