Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning, cabinet secretary. I will stick with the issue of who pays, which is certainly confusing me this morning.

I have always understood that pay for our local councillors is part of the overall settlement for local government, and you have said that. There seems to be a developing suggestion that somehow the Government should separate that out. I am certainly getting that sense; I do not know whether our colleagues have got that, this morning. However, when we asked our witnesses earlier whether that is what they are asking for, I think that they did not agree with that. Where does the question, “Who pays?” come from. You said yourself a wee moment ago that the difficulty is who pays. Could you explain to us again who pays the salaries of local councillors?

That takes into account a possible backdate to—

Was there some discussion leading up to the Verity house agreement to get the issue embedded in that agreement? Was it rejected? Did you propose that? How did things end up? Is it just not there at all and it remains a wish that it should be part of the Verity house agreement?

To finish off on that point, are you saying that funding for local councillors should be a specifically set item in any future Scottish Government budget, that it should be specifically separate and that provision should be made for it? From my understanding, it is part of the overall settlement.

I turn to the debate about whether the proposal is a salary increase.

Angela Leitch, you said that this is not a pay increase but is a reassessment. From the figures that we have, it amounts to a potential 15 per cent increase—or reassessment. Can you explain your thinking? Why do you describe it as a reassessment and not a pay increase if it amounts to 15 per cent?

My final question is for Jane O’Donnell. I think that you said that you hoped that, when the issue is settled, it could be backdated to 2023-24. I think that councillors are worth every penny that they get—I served myself for about 20 years in East Ayrshire—but what would the overall cost of that backdating be, if we could afford it?

If the Government agrees and sets regulations for salary levels, will it be the case that they must apply across the board in Scotland? Is the Government saying that councils “can” apply salary uplifts, or “must” apply them?

I am just trying to remember what Jane O’Donnell from COSLA said a while ago. We can check the Official Report, but she said something like, if the Scottish Government does not agree to pay, COSLA might not be able to implement the pay changes. On the one hand, you are agreeing that regulations can set the new pay levels for the councillors. On the other hand, you are saying that they might—

Would that be ring fenced? Would that be ring fencing coming back, if you did—

Okay. Finally, in your response to the SLARC report you say that you recognise that it is now a year after the committee’s suggested date for implementation and so on. You say:

“We will account for this delay when setting the salaries to be paid from 1 April 2025.”

Could you explain what you mean by that exactly?