Seòmar agus comataidhean

Has the UK Government even sought to find out what the Scottish Government is doing in this area—for example in the digital strategy—so that that can shape what it is planning to do? Has there been any engagement at least in order to understand what we are doing?

Minister, you mentioned that there is no consent process, and that the bill provides just for a consultative process—the UK Government is not even asking this Parliament for consent for the proposal. What are your views on the principle of consent not being sought?

Thank you, minister. I am sure that other members will have questions on that.

Good. Thank you.

Thank you very much for that.

If it is okay, convener, I have two more questions that I will just roll into one. They are probably for Andrew Burns. First, what evidence base do councils actually need in their work with partners in the third sector to help them reach a conclusion as to whether any of this is having the positive impact that we hope it is having?

That leads me to my other question, which is about how we gather solid, quality data. What do we need to have that we perhaps do not have, which would enable us to answer those questions at future meetings of this committee?

I do not think that we will ever get rid of the time lag issue, but is there any missing qualitative or quantitative data that we should be gathering?

Good morning. I welcome Paul Johnston back to the Public Audit Committee—hello again.

I will broaden out the discussion a wee bit and talk about things such as management standards and project management quality standards. The sponsorship arrangements and toolkit—if we can call it that—are crucial and it is important that they are clear. Reference was made in the report to sponsor teams not being seen as “sexy”, but somebody also described sponsorship as a “black art”. Usually, that tag is used when there is a lack of clarity about any process and only a few people know how things work. Therefore, I am very hopeful that the work that you are doing will make sponsorship less of a black art and much more visible and usable for people.

Alongside the sponsorship toolkit, huge importance is, surely, placed on the public bodies, which spend all the money—£22 billion—that you mentioned at the outset, to embrace recognised quality management standards to deliver the thing that they are trying to do.

Over many years, the committee has seen numerous examples in that regard. I remember i6, Disclosure Scotland, the national health service IT systems and many other IT systems. The common message and theme for me and other members of this and predecessor committees is the lack of embracement and adoption of recognised management standards. However, there is a success story in Social Security Scotland, which you, quite rightly, mentioned. Could you talk a little more about that important aspect that should enhance and complement the sponsorship toolkit? For me, that is the embracement of management standards within the public bodies that serve Scotland.

Even the most optimistic of us would not say that the committee is unlikely to see another example of a project that has gone wrong. Usually, when the committee or the Auditor General opens the lid and looks in not only will sponsorship arrangements be pointed at but quality standards management arrangements will be seen to be lacking.

I would like an assurance that, going forward, the discussion that we have had, and the other suggestion that I put to you on project management, will be embedded into the thinking of all organisations. I say that in the hope that we will not see a regular recurrence and a procession of organisations that have not embraced such standards and processes coming before us. What assurance can you offer the committee that progress is being made towards that aim?

Would you say that Scotland’s public bodies have a duty to embrace those standards? I do not think that there is a requirement on them to embrace project management quality standards, management frameworks or whatever you want to call them. Should we ask them to embrace those standards? Many do, and some of the smaller organisations probably do not have the capacity to embrace some of those standards, but should we ask them to do so? Should we raise the bar a bit to require public bodies to embrace the standards that I am talking about? Over the years, my experience has been that, if we do not have those standards in place, there is little chance that we will deliver anything on time or on budget. What is the view on requiring public bodies to embrace those standards?

Thank you very much, convener. I want to ask the Auditor General a question arising from page 3 of the briefing paper, which says:

“The key policy actions to reduce child poverty in Scotland rest with the UK Government, the Scottish Government”,

councils and partners and so on.

It is perhaps appropriate to be putting this question to you on the anniversary of the removal of universal credit uplift. Do you feel that you cannot scrutinise, assess or examine the impacts that some of the UK Government’s measures might be having on overall child poverty levels? I am sure that the committee is interested in gaining the widest picture possible as regards the key influencers on this topic. Will you say a bit about where you see your role being and whether you are able to look at and scrutinise that side of the process?