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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 31 March 2025
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Displaying 2127 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Good morning, everyone.

I want to stick with our very young friends the two-year-olds for a moment. Stephen, your report tells us that 25 per cent of two-year-olds are eligible, but that figure is going up. The number of families with two-year-olds who wish to take advantage of the policy is going up, probably because of the current economic circumstances. Do you have any sense of whether the demand is uniform across Scotland or whether there are pockets of Scotland in which there is more of an increase in demand and uptake than in others?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Thank you for that. I would like to see the picture as it emerges by council area—if that is possible, Stephen—in any future update that you give the committee.

I am very happy with your responses so far. If I can, I will come back in later with a question on the software issue that you raise in the report.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Your report also talks about some work that is going on to try to help the councils to identify the eligible two-year-olds. Some technical work is going on between the Scottish Government and HMRC. That is not the same as the work that is being done on the software issue, which we might talk about later—I understand that that is a different piece of work.

Has that work concluded? Is that technical ability to identify eligible two-year-olds complete? Rebecca, I think that you said that 15 councils are starting to reach out. When will the rest of them start to do that in order to identify the eligibility?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Okay. I might come back to that when I ask you about the other software component that comes up later in the report.

I have a final wee query about access to the provision for kids with additional support needs. The satisfaction rates are pretty high. Your report tells us that satisfaction is at 88 per cent, broadly, but that there is an 85 per cent satisfaction rate among families with kids with additional support needs. Is there a story to share about whether we are fully delivering for families with kids with additional support needs?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Was the initial project abandoned three years ago? The report states that it has taken three years to get to where we are.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Okay. I am always curious about what the actual cause of a software failure is when that comes to the committee. However, that is really crucial to allow us to make any progress in assessing the impact of the whole policy. I presume that this lies at the heart of it. If we are to be successful at all in evaluating the impact, outcomes and so on, we are going to need some kind of data analysis tool like that to draw on and to tell us what the picture is across Scotland as a whole. Is that fair to say?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Is the main problem the fact that changing to a new vendor or a new software developer is not necessarily going to resolve data inconsistency? If it is there, it is there. Is work going on to try to make sure that the data that local councils collect is in a consistent form that allows the software to present us with the national picture? Is that one of the issues that sits at the heart of this?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

At the Public Audit Committee, the story of data gaps is a common and familiar one in a number of areas. Do you think that your messaging to the Government and its agencies about data, data quality and data gaps is fully understood so that such issues can be addressed, as you just hinted? Is it fully understood to enable us to develop and get the tool right?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

I emphasise that our ability to determine whether there has been value for money will depend largely on consistent, quality data being gathered and on that data being analysed fairly within councils and across the country as a whole.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Willie Coffey

Thank you very much.