Seòmar agus comataidhean

I think so, and that is what we are all hoping the fiscal framework will help us to do. As we heard from COSLA, that has perhaps proved to be more complex than some people first thought. It is important to get that right. We—COSLA and the Scottish Government—are doing the work: we are working in good faith to take that forward. I would not be surprised if the Finance and Public Administration Committee took an interest in the matter once the fiscal framework is concluded, but it may be more for this committee to consider it once we get to that point.

COSLA has articulated how it got to its figures, but that does not align with the view of the Finance and Public Administration Committee and the Parliament on comparing like with like, and on clarity.

Some of those points are absolutely right. What are the outcomes that we are trying to achieve? They are better education and better destinations for young people. The question is how we get there. It will be no surprise to hear me say that the Scottish Government is committed to supporting recruitment of teachers. We are providing local authorities with £145.5 million to protect teacher numbers. Our ambition is clear—it is to close the poverty-related attainment gap.

That is an example of an area of shared responsibility, which is why the work on the outcomes and accountability framework to go alongside the fiscal framework is so important. That work is on-going. In the Verity house agreement, there are specific areas of funding. There is £145.5 million in local government settlements to protect teacher numbers. That is a policy decision of the Scottish Government; I am not sure that I have heard any of the Opposition parties articulating a desire to reduce teacher numbers.

We need to look at the issue. We will make progress by working on the accountability and outcomes framework so that we all have the assurances that we need that the policies, particularly those that are shared between the Scottish Government, the Parliament and councils across Scotland, can move forward in a way that works for everyone.

This goes back to Pam Gosal’s question. Hard decisions will have to be made; indeed, the Scottish Government has had to make hard decisions. I am not pretending that setting a budget will be an easy process for any council; councils will have to make difficult decisions, too.

We have supported our local authority colleagues as much as we can by increasing the share of the discretionary budget that we have, so we have prioritised local government. I do not think that anyone is pretending that the settlements anywhere meet our aspirations, but we have to face the reality of what was delivered to us in the autumn statement, and we have to set a budget that works.

Ultimately, the Government will work with COSLA on any of these areas. Collaboration is key, and we have a shared desire to make progress. In the wider public service, we need to look at using technology better and doing things differently. The on-going work on wider public service reform is led by others, but it is key that we work collaboratively.

Councillor Hagmann has covered some of the main areas. A couple of the areas that she has flagged are ones in which we would hope to make progress.

Multiyear funding is absolutely an aspiration. It continues to be an aspiration, but there is the challenge regarding the settlement that the Scottish Government gets from the United Kingdom Government. That said, the medium-term financial strategy includes an increase in local government funding in cash terms of £1.5 billion from this year to 2027-28. There is a degree of certainty about where the Scottish Government wants to go to help local government planning, but, obviously, we have the challenge of the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament receiving their settlement on an annual basis, and that has to interface in the real world when we face the difficult challenge of setting the budget for Scotland.

We are committed to reviewing all the ring-fenced funds over time, but, going forward, there should be ring fencing only with agreement. Part of the process is to develop an assurance framework, which is a different way of doing stuff. We need to work together on that to get it right. Right now, about 7 per cent of investment is formally ring fenced, but, on top of that, local authorities spend a significant amount of money on statutory services, which removes flexibilities, but, within that, there is flexibility as to how that money is spent.

The first stage of the work that we are doing is to review all existing funds that are transferred to local government, outside of the general revenue and general capital grants. We are looking at how much of that can be baselined for the 2024-25 budget. The outcome of that work, which is on-going at the moment as part of the work that we are doing in developing the fiscal framework, will be seen in the budget when that is published. A lot of work has already been done, and a lot of work continues.

This is not backward looking; moving forward, there should not be ring fencing unless it is agreed. There will be times when the Scottish Government and COSLA agree that, for a particular reason, there should be a ring-fenced fund for one thing in particular, probably for a short time. Going forward, the expectation is that funding will not be ring fenced in the long term. The point is that that should happen with agreement.

As I mentioned, the medium-term financial strategy included increases in local government funding to give an indication, but it is just an indication. The lack of certainty around funding from the UK Government means that the final decision will be taken when the Scottish Government’s budget is passed. As Councillor Hagmann said, there has been a lot more earlier collaboration with COSLA. Councillor Hagmann has already had meetings with the Deputy First Minister. That has happened much earlier than it has done in previous years. That engagement is definitely front-loaded this year.

You are conflating two very different points. The Verity house agreement drew a line in the sand for how we operate and collaborate going forward. If you want to talk about what we are doing on planning, I will say that it is a real issue that has been identified by local government, the Scottish Government, Heads of Planning Scotland and the RTPI, all of whom have recognised its challenges. The challenges are not straightforward. It is not just that folk are leaving planning; it is more than that. There are challenges with recruitment and in having a new planning regime that is transformational for Scotland, and we want to make sure that we get the most from that so that it creates all these opportunities. That is why we have, for some time, been working with our partners to look at how we can address that.

I am not sure that I recognise the number that you gave for planners that will be needed. That is a higher number than I had heard, but, for sure, a substantial number of new planners will be required over the next 10 to 15 years. We need to plan for that, and we are doing that.

One of the important pieces of work that we have done is the “Future Planners Report”. The Scottish Government provided funding for Heads of Planning Scotland and the RTPI to look at how we can tackle some of the challenges that we face, and their report is useful. It was published in 2022, and I am sure that the committee is well aware of it. We are taking forward the actions in that report. Nothing in that report is unachievable. There are a number of short-term actions, medium-term actions and long-term actions, and we are making real progress, particularly, right here and now, on the short-term actions. We will continue to work with our partners to do more, because some real challenges could be coming up.

Pam Gosal mentioned undergraduate courses. In my home city of Dundee, the Duncan of Jordanstone college of art and design at Dundee University offers an undergraduate course, but other undergraduate courses have stopped operating. That is partly because people who end up becoming planners often do not have that career as their initial aim. They start off doing something else, such as architecture, and then do a masters, and a number of masters courses are available across the country.

To support that shift, we have funded 10 RTPI bursaries for students who will undertake Scottish postgraduate planning degrees this year. We will see how that goes and whether we can expand the number of bursaries to encourage more folk to make the shift. We need to make sure that folk who are looking at their career choices at school realise just how exciting planning is. Folk often do another course and then realise that they want to be a planner, and they then have to take a further course. I have been engaging with young planners, who are a enthusiastic group of folk. They are keen to make sure that the wider potential employment pool understands exactly what planning does and how exciting it is, particularly in the context of national planning framework 4 and the transition to net zero. If we can get that message across, more colleges and universities will consider providing planning as an undergraduate course. I am aware of at least one other university—I cannot name it just now—that is considering starting an undergraduate course in planning. It would be good if that were to happen.

We need to do more to encourage people. We are keen to look at whether there might be an opportunity for work-based training so that young folk can do their undergraduate course while working for, say, a local authority. A number of local authorities are keen to help with that process, but we need to make sure that it will work for the universities, young people and local authorities. One of the challenges is that NPF4 provides a huge number of opportunities, which means that there will also be an increased draw from the private sector. We need to make sure that we increase the size of the pool, but we are working on that with local government and other partners.

Are we talking about planning or wider local government?

If we are talking about planning, we are making those changes right now. The bursaries are in place. We are also working with heads of planning to look at what more we can all do to make the planning system more efficient. You will be aware that one of the things that is coming through is permitted development rights. If we get those right, they could take pressure off our local government planners. We need to get them right, because we do not want just to say that everything is okay while it becomes a free-for-all. There needs to be appropriate planning support, and that is why we are consulting and will be introducing further legislation. I am absolutely open to suggestions on what further work we can do.

Although we are not doing it right not, we will also be working on the digitisation of some of that work, which will potentially offer huge advantages in the future. A number of local authorities are already digitising some of the work that they are doing. They are moving more online and using less paper, and it is much more efficient. It is important to remember that that does not all rest with local authority planners. A huge amount of weight and sometimes a fair amount of unfair criticism is placed on local authority planners, particularly when things do not go the way in which some applicants would like. Applicants have a responsibility to make sure that an application is submitted with the required information so that the planning authority can make its decision as speedily as possible.

Sometimes, folk will not like the decisions that come out of a planning process. That is why there are appeals. From speaking to developers, however, I know that one of the issues that they are keen to see resolved is the time that applications take. If applicants are going to be told no, they want to know sooner. It is partly on the applicants to make sure that their applications are as correct as possible. We are working with local authority partners and heads of planning to try to understand what more we can do to help with that process.