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Do you think that they are being considered as part of that approach, or is it just a case of thinking, “This will not cost any money, because they will just do the work”?

Paul Sweeney strayed into the area that I was looking to talk about, which is longer-term sustainability and ensuring that there is collaboration, which we heard from the previous panel is key. Caroline Cameron touched on carers, which I also wanted to make sure that we touched on. I want to ensure that, when we talk about collaboration, we are not just talking about the IJB, the council and the health board but also recognise that the third sector, the voluntary sector and unpaid carers are important parts of the system.

How do we ensure that we are collaborating in a joined-up way? The pressures that the system is facing are only going to get more challenging as the population gets older and has more complex needs. I would be grateful if you could answer briefly.

Maybe Sharon Wearing can answer my other question. We have talked a lot about finances for long-term sustainability, but the other side of that is workforce planning and the challenges with that. The services were really impacted by Brexit. Are we getting over that and managing to start recruiting or is it still a real challenge that we are unable to have the full range of people who want to work?

Thank you, convener. I am pleased to be on the committee and I have no relevant interests to declare.

Morning, convener. I, too, have no relevant interests to declare.

I would be pleased to nominate Ruth Maguire.

That is exactly what the education assurance board is for. I think that it has been set up: if it has not been set up, it will be shortly. That will allow the Scottish Government and local government, with other partners in education, to take forward that issue in a meaningful way and to get the shared reality that we all want. What is the right number? What is the best way to spend money? What will achieve the outcomes that really matter on attainment, which ultimately will help to drive down poverty levels?

No one is suggesting that there is anything easy in the budget this year. There have been really difficult decisions for the Scottish Government—for the Deputy First Minister, in particular—in looking at all the challenges across the Scottish public service. Equally, it will be challenging for our local government colleagues. It would be disingenuous of me to tell local authorities how they should allocate their budgets. Differing decisions will be made based on local circumstances.

We have increased the discretionary budget by £1 million, which is un-ring-fenced. I want to go much further than that, but it is difficult for us to do that without the work on the fiscal framework and the accountability and assurance framework, which ensure that not just the Scottish Government but Parliament have confidence. That will give us the two-way trust that Councillor Hagmann talked about. It has to be two-way trust. That is why so much effort is being put in to those discussions with COSLA.

I am trying to remember, but I think that Glasgow City Council made that point last week. However, I think that it is selling itself a bit short. Some amazing work is going on across local authorities, but generally it is when they work in partnership with other public services that we can really see the difference and great results being achieved.

I am going to give a shout-out to three local authorities that I think are showing the innovation that is happening across the country. Glasgow City Council and Dundee City Council have their pathfinder work, in which they are supporting families out of poverty by testing innovative models of person-centred service provision. Once that work has been completed, we will see whether it can be applied to other authorities. I should say that the models in Glasgow and Dundee are not the same; they are different; as a result, we would be looking for local adaptations to such innovation. The other authority that I will highlight is Clackmannanshire Council, whose family wellbeing partnership is testing and embedding wellbeing and capability approaches to tackling poverty.

No one is saying that managing the budget is easy—that is for sure—but on the suggestion that there is no time for innovation, I say that this is absolutely the time for innovation. Since I have been an MSP, we have been talking about how we shift resources from reactive to preventative approaches, and we are starting to see that work happening. It was always going to be difficult, but it is happening. The work in Dundee, Glasgow and Clackmannanshire is all about prevention and saving individuals from future trauma and, in turn, saving public services in the future.

I have given three examples of the preventative work that is happening. There are many more such examples across Scotland.

That point that local government has made is absolutely reasonable. Let us take a step back: in the aftermath of the Smith commission, there are significant additional responsibilities across a range of public services in Scotland that need to be funded from our devolved budget. On top of that, there are significant costs from a range of mitigations that the Parliament considers to be necessary to protect communities across Scotland from the worst ravages of Westminster. It is also worth noting that, in a lot of those areas, there is shared responsibility. We need to balance our available budget to get the best outcomes. For example, the £457.3 million—almost £0.5 billion—that is budgeted for the Scottish child payment is removing thousands of children from poverty and is working in synergy with anti-poverty actions that are being taken by many local authorities.

We need to look at the budget as a whole and we need to know that we are all doing more. If anyone hears a suggestion from me or any other Government minister that this has been a budget of easy decisions, that is not the case. There have been difficult decisions in the budget for the Scottish Government and there will be difficult decisions for local authority leaders in setting their budgets. We all want to do the best for our communities with the limited resources that we have.