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I thank Patrick Harvie for setting out the rationale for the amendments and wish Ross Greer a speedy recovery—he is lined up to speak in a few debates this week.

It is fair to say that I fully support folk being available to help people to understand and navigate the process. That is why section 23 of the bill allows ministers to make guidance on matters relevant to the bill. It is also why I have lodged an amendment to strengthen that provision by requiring ministers to provide or ensure the provision of information about the process in an accessible and understandable format, for the benefit of terminally ill adults, certainly, and of medical, social care and social work professionals, as well as the wider public.

I am also aware that structures exist to ensure patient safety and supported decision-making. Health boards in Scotland must observe equal opportunity requirements. Although not strictly advocacy, the patient advice and support service provides support to patients, while the GMC provides guidance to doctors on supporting patients in their decision making.

Under my bill, proxy arrangements can be made to support a person in accessing assisted dying services and the Patient Safety Commissioner will also have a role to play. However, through my engagement with third sector organisations, I am aware that many stand ready to provide assistance, advice and support through a navigation service. That would be my hope. As Patrick Harvie rightly said, we have seen that in other jurisdictions that have assisted dying legislation in place. As with some other amendments, the Scottish Government might be best placed to comment on how the provision would fit with existing structures, policies and services.

Ross Greer’s amendment 283 would provide for the Scottish ministers to commence the substantive parts of the bill by regulation. That reflects that ministers are responsible for ensuring that all aspects of the assisted dying service are workable and that they tie in with all other aspects of health and public service delivery in an integrated and safe way. The Scottish ministers will have the necessary oversight, and I expect them to commence the various substantive parts of the act only when all relevant health, social care, social work and other services are appropriately prepared and all necessary measures are in place to enable assistance to be requested and provided. Singling out in statute particular steps that must happen before the act can be commenced risks undermining the process and further delaying the availability of assistance to those who need it.

I note that the Scottish Government has highlighted that it is unclear from the amendments whether the conditions will have to be met by the individual advocate or the service provider, and how the service would be funded or monitored. That said, I am sympathetic to what Ross Greer is seeking to achieve through his amendments in this group. I will be happy to speak with him once his voice returns and, ahead of stage 3, to see what more the bill can provide to address the concerns that he rightly raises.

At this stage, however, I urge him, through Patrick Harvie, not to press the amendments, but I am pleased that the committee has at least had an opportunity to engage with the issue, which reflects what we see in other jurisdictions. There is a balance to be found as to whether we put the provisions in statute or allow the process to develop organically, as has been the experience in many of those jurisdictions.

Sue Webber makes a reasonable point. However, my point about variability was more in relation to specifying a time that might be deemed “reasonable” or by which death is expected to occur.

As I was suggesting, I think that, on reflection, ways of strengthening the bill by recording considerations that have been outlined not just by you, Ms Webber—

Let me respond to Sue Webber, Mr Doris, and then I will let you in.

I am responding to the concerns that are reflected in a number of amendments, each of which is trying to do something similar but in a different way. This is an issue that I am happy to look at; I am not sure that I am necessarily supportive of any of the amendments that have been lodged, but I am happy to work with members and the Scottish Government ahead of stage 3 to see whether there are ways of better reflecting the issue in the bill.

I will take the amendment—I mean, the intervention—from Bob Doris.

As in many other areas, there is a balance about the extent to which we leave matters to the discretion of individual medical practitioners and the bill laying out a requirement on them to act in a particular way. There will be different views on that. I suspect that the BMA and others may be distinctly uncomfortable with the bill going down the route of having requirements and cutting across the professional judgment of medical practitioners or, indeed, interfering with the doctor-patient relationship. I recognise that the procedure that we would be dealing with feels more significant than other areas of medicine, but the safeguards in the bill are more likely to operate effectively if they are consistent with the way in which medical practice operates more generally.

I am grateful to Brian Whittle for taking my intervention and for his generous comments about the approach that I have taken to the bill. That remains the case, and I observe that I have been supportive of amendments from pretty much every member who has lodged an amendment. That is not to say that I have supported every amendment, but I have, in many instances, accepted the point that has been made.

I ask Brian Whittle to reflect on the fact that, even if the principle behind an amendment could be supported, it is in nobody’s interest to pass amendments that may have unintended consequences, or an amendment that would not do what it is that the member who has lodged that amendment would wish it to do. That is why, at stage 2, we have an opportunity to explore those issues, and at stage 3, we will have an opportunity to refine amendments, which I have committed to doing in many instances.

This bill is like any other bill. A lot of amendments are lodged at stage 2 to allow a debate to take place; they will not all necessarily be accepted, but that process should strengthen and improve the bill as it moves on to stage 3, where it can be further strengthened and improved, as I have committed to doing.

I will address my amendments before I turn to the other amendments in the group. Amendments 37 and 38 alter the death certificate requirements in section 17 to require the death certificate to record—secondary to the primary cause of death, as covered by section 17(2)—that an approved substance was self-administered under the bill’s provisions. Amendment 36 is a consequential drafting amendment.

The bill requires that the death certificate for a terminally ill adult who has had an assisted death under the bill’s provisions must record the terminal illness as the primary cause of death. The explanatory notes add that it is expected that the substance that the person used would also be recorded on the death certificate as a secondary or additional cause. My policy has always been that both the terminal illness and the substance that is used should be recorded on the death certificate. I note that the committee’s stage 1 report concluded that

“both the illness, disease or condition which led to an individual requesting assistance to end their life, and the approved substance provided to enable them to do so”

should be

“detailed on the death certificate.”

My amendments will ensure that that is the case.

After further consideration following discussions with the chief medical officer and others, I have lodged my amendments to ensure that my policy is reflected in the bill and that death certificates capture both the underlying terminal illness as the cause of death and the fact that an approved substance was used. That will ensure appropriate transparency.

I note the Scottish Government’s confirmation that that will require consultation with Public Health Scotland, National Records of Scotland, Healthcare Improvement Scotland and health and social care services to ensure that deaths continue to be recorded in an accurate, consistent and helpful manner, that new processes and investment will be needed to support that level of data collection, development and reporting, and that alignment with other UK jurisdictions will also need to be considered. I welcome that helpful clarification and am keen to work with the Government if further work is required ahead of stage 3.

Pam Duncan-Glancy’s amendments 246 and 247 would change the death certification provision so that the approved substance used is listed as the primary cause of death and the terminal illness is recorded as an underlying condition. I certainly acknowledge the different perspectives on the issue, and although I remain of the view that the right and most transparent thing to do is to record the primary cause of death as the terminal illness, with the substance also being noted on the death certificate, I want to hear what Pam Duncan-Glancy and other members on the committee have to say when speaking to her amendments before deciding whether to press my amendments.

I move amendment 36.

I thank Miles Briggs for initiating this debate. Listening to him reminded me of some of the exchanges that we had way back this morning, when I think it was Bob Doris who was playing devil’s advocate for me and for Sue Webber—which I thought was a heroic act on his part. Miles Briggs talked about the need for a framework but also the need to protect discretion in medical judgment. In all this, that is the balance that we need to strike.

I thank Sue Webber and Pam Duncan-Glancy for speaking to their amendments. I turn to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s amendment 252, which seeks to make it an offence to

“publish, distribute or display any advertisement, notice or material which ... promotes ... encourages, or ... solicits ... the provision of assistance to a terminally ill adult to end that adult’s life.”

The amendment also lists examples of advertising, including

“printed material ... electronic communications ... social media posts ... websites”

and

“any other form of public or private communication intended to reach more than one person.”

Pam Duncan-Glancy has explained the rationale behind that very well. The amendment exempts communication that is solely aimed at providing information about the act and provides for a maximum penalty of a fine at level 5 on the scale or of two years in prison.

I am aware that the committee considered the legislative consent motion that Joe FitzPatrick referred to. That arose due to an agreed amendment to the Westminster bill that extended to Scotland a duty on the secretary of state to make regulations prohibiting the advertising of a voluntary assisted dying service. Unlike the provision in the Westminster bill, which limits the advertising offence to assisted dying services that are provided in accordance with the act, Pam Duncan-Glancy’s amendment seems to relate slightly more broadly to advertising the provision of assistance to a terminally ill adult in general. I wonder about the potential crossover with the Westminster bill and any uncertainty that that might create. I also note the Scottish Government’s comments on some of the technical aspects of the amendment.

That said, I am very supportive of the principle behind the amendment, which seems to seek to achieve—much the same as in the Westminster bill—a change that I very much welcome. If Pam Duncan-Glancy’s intent is to create an equivalent belt-and-braces provision in this bill to what is provided in the Westminster bill, I would certainly be happy to support those endeavours ahead of stage 3. However, there are issues that need to be addressed in the amendment for that to happen.

With regard to Sue Webber’s amendments 253 and 276, the offence appears at odds with the requirement under section 7 of the bill for assessing doctors to discuss the nature of the substance with the person requesting an assisted death. That opens up the potential for creating uncertainties for assessing doctors. I note the Scottish Government’s concern that

“labelling the substance could be interpreted as committing an offence. It is also unclear how someone’s access to information could be time limited.”

I also note that amendment 253, through subsection (1), does not appear to be limited solely to publishing. I therefore encourage Sue Webber not to move amendments 253 and 276, and, if she does, I ask committee members not to support them.

That is helpful in exemplifying what the member is seeking to achieve, which is to go beyond what has already been agreed to in the Westminster bill. However, I must say—I feel this acutely—that a challenge arises from that fact that legislation on the same area is passing through both Parliaments simultaneously.

I would have concerns about extending the definition more broadly. There are concerns about ensuring that people have access to the information that they need to make an informed decision. The evidence from other jurisdictions suggests that, for example, as with many other aspects of health and care, those in lower socioeconomic demographics often find themselves less able to access services because of that lack of information.

I get the sensitivities around that, and I absolutely support the change that was made to the Westminster bill. I would support applying that change through the provisions of my bill. However, I would be wary about extending that further because, irrespective of where you stand on whether there should be a change in the law, there could be problematic consequences in doing so.

We cannot give you a grouping all to yourself if you are not going to play ball, Mr Johnson.

I thank Daniel Johnson for lodging the amendments and for speaking to them and explaining their rationale, which I entirely understand. I accept that there would be a degree of arbitrariness with any timeframe that we set for the period of reflection.

On Mr Johnson’s point about people whose prognosis is that death might be more imminent, there is a provision in the bill that will allow anybody who is assessed as being likely to die within 14 days to have a reflection period of 48 hours, which is not much but should allow sufficient time for at least some reflection. That will also allow the process, with all the safeguards, to run its course.

I believe that the period of 14 days strikes the right balance between ensuring that a terminally ill adult has time to reflect on their decision at the end of life and ensuring that they are not subject to prolonged suffering, having taken that decision. In the stage 1 evidence that the committee received, including from the voluntary assisted dying review board in Victoria, Australia, it was noted that many who seek assisted death may not live for 14 days after having signed the declaration.

I note that amendments 7 and 8 are consequential on amendment 9. I understand the rationale for Daniel Johnson lodging the amendments. He is almost certainly correct that we will return to the issue at stage 3, but it will be difficult for the committee or Parliament to come up with a timeframe that is any less arbitrary. We can draw confidence from what we see in other jurisdictions, which is that, by and large, 14 days seems to be an appropriate timeframe to set.

I again thank Daniel Johnson for lodging the amendments. I will leave my remarks there.