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May I intervene further? That was all really interesting stuff, Mr Golden, but, perhaps through my own carelessness, I did not hear you say at any point that you support having the strategy on a statutory footing. Will you confirm it?

Mr Simpson, I want to have consensus here. I genuinely do not think that you are meaning to be obtuse—perhaps you are. There is an underlying policy intent about ensuring that the global south, however we define it—I have accepted the lack of clarity in that regard—should be consulted.

Yes, I lacked brevity when asking my previous question, which was: does Mr Simpson agree with the policy intent? I am still not clear on that.

That is a reasonable point, and I anticipated that it would be made not only by Graham Simpson but by the minister. I did not want to deviate from the wording that I agreed with SCIAF, but I appreciate that there may be a need to tighten it up.

As soon as we define the global south, we could perhaps exclude some places, so we need to give the Scottish Government a degree of latitude and flexibility. That is also why this may turn out to be a probing amendment. Perhaps the wording will be tightened up, and it will be brought back at stage 3.

The important thing is that, in the co-design process with other groups, which was mentioned earlier, we need to make sure that the global south—however we define it, Mr Simpson—is part of the discussions, not just on our terms but in a way that means that we hear directly from those partners about the real-life impact on their part of the world.

I will leave it at that and draw my remarks to an end, convener.

I have been working on amendment 187 with the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, which I thank for its efforts. It is keen—and I agree—that

“relevant policy makers, human right defenders and environmental experts from the Global South”

should be consulted in the development of our circular economy strategy.

SCIAF has suggested that participants from Scotland’s partner countries—such as Malawi, Zambia, Rwanda and Pakistan—could be included. I have not named any countries in my amendment. I am keen for the amendment to be as flexible as possible, to maximise its opportunity to be useful to the Government and to make a meaningful contribution to ensuring that the global south is properly consulted. Those who are closest to the harm that is caused by our consumption and who understand global needs should be included in the development and implementation of our circular economy strategy.

The circular economy strategy does not sit in isolation. A truly circular economy needs to take account of the impact on the global south. We must look at it through both ends of the telescope. I am sure that the Scottish Government will want to look at the impact on the global south, anyway—

I absolutely will.

That is a helpful intervention from Monica Lennon, which explains to anyone watching the proceedings why we have a three-stage parliamentary process to iron out all these things. It is an essential part of passing good legislation.

On the role of workers and unions, the latter are at the heart and core of the Just Transition Partnership that I spoke to ahead of lodging amendments 208 and 209 and I pay tribute to them, because they were keen to see not just the workforce but employers and communities be part of that just transition.

The minister referred previously to amendment 137, which mentions just transition. I have to say that it is quite concise about that. However, what I am trying to achieve is perhaps around the delivery of a just transition across the various sectors of the Scottish economy rather than around the strategy itself. Something in the bill must give specific reference to the policy intent, which my amendment would do. I am open minded about the wording of the amendment and whether it would best sit in the strategy section or elsewhere, but I think that we must return to that point.

I will hold my position for the moment and listen with interest to what the minister says when she speaks to her amendments.

The member says that we do not need a circular economy strategy bill in order to get on with a circular economy strategy, but does he accept that the Parliament is moulding in statute what a circular economy strategy should look like—how it should be monitored and reported on—and that the bill structures such a strategy according to the will of the Parliament rather than the will of the Government? Putting it on a statutory footing empowers the Parliament. Does Mr Golden support putting the strategy on a statutory footing?

I thank the deputy convener for giving way. Ben Macpherson is right to identify the demands that there will be on construction and how it manages waste, as well as all the evidence that we took during our stage 1 evidence sessions. For balance, does Ben Macpherson agree that construction is also a key contributor to net zero? With better construction and energy standards, and better quality new-build homes in this country—not just in terms of where we stay, but in office buildings—and in retrofitting, construction is a key sector for managing us towards net zero and tackling our climate challenges. It is a key partner.

I meant to say this at the start of the session. There are huge time constraints on us and, lots of times, members will withdraw or not press amendments on the basis that we will engage with the minister ahead of stage 3. However, rather than members saying that every single time, it can be inferred that that is a set process for many amendments during the passage of the bill. I get it that amendments are in the gift of the Presiding Officer at stage 3, but I want to put that on the record.

I thank Mr Lumsden for his tone and his constructive demeanour in raising concerns. There is an underlying policy intent here, which, as Mr Ruskell has said, might not have to be captured in the bill. Do you agree, Mr Lumsden, with the underlying intent to make sure, however we define it, without going down that road, that we engage meaningfully with the global south?