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I am sorry to cut across you, but I probably did not articulate my question sufficiently well. Some witnesses’ written evidence said that it might be burdensome to do community consultation, to consider biodiversity and net zero and to undertake the cost of preparing a land management plan. More things could be included in the plans, and I generally support what you are saying, but others might contend that the more we ask people to do, the more burdensome and costly the process could become. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Do you think that there is scope within land management plan regulations to say that that consultation process is an opportunity to discuss with communities what their rights actually are, because not every community will be aware of what their rights are or will have organised in such a fashion. Should that be part of the discourse during that consultation process?

Can I check with you, Mr Macleod? So, 30 million square metres is 30 million square metres, irrespective of what the data shows. Is that too big, too small or just about right?

We will come to that in a wee second, Mr Macleod. To be honest, it is a straightforward question: do you think that 30 million square metres is too high, too low or about right?

Would you have a view on whether it would be affordable?

That was really helpful. Would that be a barrier to making the fine greater than £5,000? Is that an impediment to going further, irrespective of whether the fine itself is affordable?

That is helpful. Mr Macleod?

I think that we all would, but I will leave it at that. Dr Robbie?

That is helpful.

My final question goes back to the idea of the £5,000 fine for non-compliance and where and when that can be levied. The committee has found a lack of clarity about that, so perhaps the witnesses can help us.

Proposed new section 44B(3)(c) of the 2016 act will require the land management plan to set out

“how ... the owner is complying or intends to comply with ... the obligations set out in the regulations”,

and proposed new section 44E will allow specific persons to allege a

“breach of an obligation imposed by regulations under section 44A”.

Is the drafting adequately clear to ensure that there are obligations to produce and to comply with land management plans? It sounds a bit like gobbledegook to me. I would rather have no one being fined because people are complying with good practice and everything is positive, but can a person be fined £5,000 for not producing a land management plan and then later down the line be fined another £5,000 if a plan appears but they are not complying with it?

I am also keen to know whether more than one £5,000 fine can be levied. Someone who does not comply with a land management plan can be fined £5,000. If three months pass and they are still not complying, can they be fined another £5,000? We are grappling with that. We will, of course, ask the Government to give some clarity about how those things might operate, but can Mr Macleod offer some assistance?

Fergus Colquhoun and Gail Watt have not had the opportunity to comment. Does Gail Watt want to add anything?