Seòmar agus comataidhean

There will be a division.

For

Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

Against

Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)

Abstentions

Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)

The result of the division is: For 2, Against 4, Abstentions 2.

Amendment 118 disagreed to.

Amendments 119 to 125 not moved.

Section 8 agreed to.

Before section 9

Amendment 29 moved—[Shirley-Anne Somerville].

I thank members for stepping into the deliberate trap that I set for them. That being the case, consider yourselves suitably chastised.

Rather, the question is, that section 2, as amended, be agreed to.

Section 2, as amended, agreed to.

After section 2

Before I bring in the cabinet secretary, I will make a brief contribution. It is not in a political vein—I clearly have some very strong views on what the UK Government has done with regard to winter fuel payments, but, as I am chairing today’s meeting, I will put those views to one side for the purpose of this debate.

I say to Mr Balfour that, in my view, this is where a politically very well-intentioned amendment meets the harsh realities of budgetary constraints and the sobering fiscal position in which the Scottish Government finds itself, which is directly related to Westminster fiscal positions and spending decisions. That makes it incredibly difficult to land where Mr Balfour has landed, as well intentioned as the policy that he proposes is.

Ms Clark made some reasonable points. If—if, I say to Mr Stewart—it was remotely possible to mitigate the impact of the decision on winter fuel payments, despite the huge and severe financial pressures on this place, that would need to be considered in the round, so Mr Balfour’s amendment is not necessarily the way to do it.

I just want to put that on the record. I hope that I have not strayed into the political arena; it is more about the practicalities of what we would like to do.

Cabinet secretary, I will bring you in.

The question is, that amendment 29 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 4, Abstentions 0.

The vote is tied. In such circumstances, as convener, I have discretion to use my casting vote, and I intend to use it in the same way as I used my personal vote. I vote against the amendment, so amendment 1 falls.

Amendment 1 disagreed to.

Amendment 27 moved—[Shirley-Anne Somerville]—and agreed to.

Amendment 2 not moved.

The next group is on care experience assistance. Amendment 1, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 27 and 2.

We move to a new group, on winter heating assistance. At the end of this group, we will stop for a short comfort break—I am just giving members that information in advance. Amendment 5, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is the only amendment in the group.

There will be a division.

For

Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

Against

Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)

Abstentions

Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)

Just one moment, Mr Balfour, if you will bear with me.

There are no point of order procedures in committee, Mr Balfour—I was just getting clarity because, as deputy convener, I do not normally convene the committee. We are about to suspend for a comfort break. If you want to discuss something informally with me, we can work out how we handle what your point of order might have been when we go back into open session. We suspend until about 10.35.