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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 February 2025
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Displaying 1788 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Bob Doris

That is helpful, cabinet secretary. It was a frank and realistic answer on a budget that is challenging for Scotland’s colleges. In the forthcoming academic year, how will you monitor what that impact will be on colleges? During any financial year, Barnett consequentials become available and the Government can leverage in other spending, so Scotland’s colleges will rightly be looking at how they can get some financial respite and whether some of that money will be leveraged in.

I will give some examples of that. I am not sure whether the core budget for colleges, which I said was challenging, includes the £10 million that colleges spent under the young person’s guarantee in the most recent financial year or the £20 million from the flexible workforce development fund that I believe was spent in colleges in the most recent financial year. We are looking at a challenging budget, but will additional money be invested in colleges that we might not be seeing in the core budget? What can colleges expect in relation to that that will allow them to plan ahead? Mr Dornan has already spoken about how multiyear budgets would help with forward planning. Can the cabinet secretary assure us that we are coming back to colleges in what will be a challenging financial period?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

That is very helpful. I mentioned the young persons guarantee because there is a quantifiable £10 million investment in that. More generally, it is clearly not just young people but those in the most-deprived areas who have the most fragile learning experiences and are the most likely to have been impacted by the pandemic more generally. Although I have follow-up questions on the young persons guarantee, I want to show an awareness of that.

I see from the papers that 2,438 students were recorded as having enrolled in the young persons guarantee and that 53.6 per cent of those were from the four most-deprived Scottish index of multiple deprivation deciles, with 18.2 per cent coming from the most-deprived decile. Are you comfortable with that balance? Should it be greater? Do you have some thoughts about that? Do we need more intensive funding? How would we follow the outcomes of that? If you were back at this committee next year and you said it was 2,438 students last year, how many would have entered in the following year? What would be the breakdown by SIMD and what would be the outcomes for those students? It would be very helpful to know that.

When I spoke to Derek Smeall, the principal of Glasgow Kelvin College, he was very sighted on the challenges that the sector faces, but it is well up on those challenges and is well placed to address them. I want to make sure that appropriate funding streams get to the colleges, to allow them to address the challenges.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

The question is about how we monitor the outcomes for those 2,438 students, what number of students we anticipate being involved next year, any breakdown of outcomes and how the young persons guarantee is spread across the country, so we get beneath the figures and do some monitoring work as a committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

Thank you. That would be very helpful. I have no further questions.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

I am not sure who does the monitoring. The young persons guarantee is funded by the funding council. Is it the funding council that measures the outcomes?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

Can I ask for that now rather than wait until next year? I think that the committee is interested in on-going monitoring of this rather than rehearsing this again next year. That is the point I was making. There was £10 million for the young persons guarantee. Would the funding council have use for additional funds for additional places next year, and would you be keen to see those targeted at the SIMD bottom 20 or 40 per cent? I am trying to find out what the funding council thinks about this instead of its just telling me the numbers.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Skills: Alignment with Business Needs

Meeting date: 15 December 2021

Bob Doris

I had better dig out my paper. You called me sooner than I expected, convener.

This is all good—it is really interesting. I will keep my powder dry until the private session, when I will give some thoughts on the apprenticeship levy, but that was an interesting exchange.

I want to turn to the role of colleges in helping to address the skills gap and align the training needs of business with education. I am interested in the funding council’s submission on the young persons guarantee, which states:

“SFC secured £10m from the fund in 2020-21 to work with colleges and universities to develop proposals to meet the aims of the fund. This collaboration resulted in a series of interventions, linked to key priority sectors, which included courses to increase the employability skills of those furthest from the job market”.

It is those funds from the labour market that I am interested in. I would like to know a bit more from the Scottish Funding Council about the colleges and the spending of that £10 million.

I met the principal of Glasgow Kelvin College the other day, and he told me that a lot of very short courses—sometimes of as little as 10 hours at a time, which are pre-employability intensive work with people furthest away from the labour market—have effectively disappeared during Covid and that colleges serving the most deprived parts of the country have major challenges ahead of them. In that context, I would like to know a lot more about the £10 million. How is that helping those furthest away from the labour market, and what is the role of colleges in that?

Depending on what I hear, I might have a couple of short supplementary questions on that theme. One of the representatives from the funding council is probably best placed to answer.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Cross-Party Groups

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Bob Doris

No, I do not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children and Young People (Impact of Covid)

Meeting date: 1 December 2021

Bob Doris

Thank you, Laura. I anticipated that you would say that, and it sounds eminently reasonable.

Your submission notes that there are already “significant reporting requirements” with the moneys that local authorities get, and that COSLA is concerned about any additional reporting requirements. However, we are Scotland’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, and given that there is a significant investment of £145.5 million in addition to the core education budget going to local authorities, we are seeking to understand how that money is deployed.

We get that there is a need for local flexibility. However, do you think that it would be reasonable for COSLA or local authorities to provide reasonable detail on how many primary and secondary school teachers have been employed; how many additional support needs staff have been deployed; the purpose and role of those staff; and what a positive outcome would look like for that spend?

I know that that sounds hugely bureaucratic. I know that schools know their kids best and that local authorities know their local communities best. I get all that. However, at some point, the committee will say to the Scottish Government, “You have put that money in, so what results have you got for it?”

We cannot just scrutinise the Government; we must also shine a light on how local authorities and COSLA view that spend and on what the benefits of it have been through Covid. Perhaps you could say what the benefits of the £80 million that has already been spent during Covid have been, and what you anticipate that the committee could do to measure positive outcomes in the years ahead for that significant additional spend.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children and Young People (Impact of Covid)

Meeting date: 1 December 2021

Bob Doris

I will be brief, convener. Just to be dispassionate about it, I think that the committee wants to analyse the impact of the spend, which is an important issue. One number that I did not give earlier was the £240 million for additional staffing during Covid, and the £145.5 million that I have already mentioned went into a core education funding budget. I am putting that on the record because we have to ensure that when we compare figures from one year to the next we are comparing apples with apples.

Underlying all this, though, is the need for a robust reporting exercise by local authorities on the number of temporary posts that existed—and the areas in which they existed—the year before Covid, through Covid and the first year after Covid in a way that is not bureaucratic—