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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 April 2025
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Displaying 238 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

The—

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

First, we are talking about three specific pieces of legislation on which people have communicated with the committee. They are understandably concerned, and it is incumbent on us to respond to those concerns. However, I do not think that there is a general issue or trend across the piece of non-implementation of legislation. If you look across the statute book, you will see that, in most areas where Parliament has decided to pass an act, we get on with the legislation and implement it, but sometimes we find that there are challenges.

We are talking about three acts. I have already made the point that a substantial amount of the Children (Scotland) Act 2020 has been put into effect. Going back to the point that I have just made, we have gone through that process. We have made sure that a substantial number of the provisions are in place. I have referred to—Simon Stockwell picked up on this, too—our plans to implement more of the legislation through statutory instruments that we will introduce next year. Of course, we understand the concerns that have been expressed by stakeholders, and it is incumbent on us to respond to them in so far as they relate to the specifics of the act.

We also need to respond to the overall concerns, which we can do in other ways. With regard to the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021 and the Female Genital Mutilation (Protection and Guidance) (Scotland) Act 2020, an awful lot of work goes on through our equally safe strategy, which is backed by a significant amount of resource from the Scottish Government. In that respect, £19 million of annual funding has been provided to 100 organisations to support 119 projects. So, yes, we must respond to concerns about the implementation of those acts but, equally, we also have to get on with dealing with some of the fundamental challenges that those acts are designed to deal with, in advance of their implementation.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I recognise that there will be disappointment—I am disappointed, too, that the act is not yet fully in place. I would refer back to my earlier answers on the general challenges that we face; nonetheless, this is a very important area, and the very stark figures that Ms Gosal has provided speak to the absolute necessity for us to try to ensure that the provisions are in place as soon as possible.

There is on-going engagement with various justice partners on the challenges of the current legislation and the changes that might be required to make the act operational. Various pieces of work are under way on how we better obtain the views of children involved in cases; Ms Gosal has indicated some of the figures involved, in so far as they have been reported, but we need clarity on the estimated number of cases and, in turn, on how we would cost and implement the scheme and on the timescales required to process and implement domestic abuse protection notices and orders, which justice partners have suggested could be a challenge.

Those are the issues that we need to work through. That work is happening, or will happen, as quickly as possible, and we would then seek to put in place part 1 as quickly as possible thereafter.

I will hand over to Jeff Gibbons to see if he can say any more on the activity that is under way and the timescales that are involved.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

The point that I was making is that the national health service will be a fundamentally important part of the effective implementation of the legislation. There will be a point at which women and girls present with what could be an area of concern, and the national health service will of course be involved there. I am happy to bring in Nel Whiting to speak to that in further detail.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will need to invite Nel Whiting to respond to that. I am not directly involved in that work.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I think that we have already answered the question around the timescale as best we can. It would be wrong of me to sit here and try to give a definitive timescale at this point. That would not be fair to the many women to whom you have just referred. You mentioned that 64,000 cases have been reported to Police Scotland, and I would not want to let those women down by giving a specific date, here and now, when I am not well informed enough to do so.

Jeff Gibbons spoke about the urgency with which we are trying to take forward the work now—early next year—to work out how we can implement the act as quickly as possible. That is an earnest and sincere commitment.

The first part of your first question was about what I would say to women who have been expecting the legislation to be implemented soon. I would say that I am sorry that it has not been implemented yet. Ideally, it should have been, but we are where we are now. The task for us is to try to ensure that it is put into statutory effect as quickly as possible, and that is our commitment.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

Jeff can respond to that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

The Law Society has flagged that as a concern of the Law Commission. As you would expect, and as would be my expectation and the expectation of any minister who had a direct responsibility for the area, we will pick that up directly. If there are things that we need to do as a consequence, we will get on with it and do them.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

One thing to flag from that is that such consultations can lead to recommendations from the Law Commission for specific legislation. There is an arrangement with the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee that at least one bill proposal that arises out of a Scottish Law Commission consultation will be referred to the committee per parliamentary year. Although we cannot say definitively that that will happen in this instance, there is that possibility.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

First, I know that you clarified your remark, but I do not think that we rush consultations. We have quite a deliberative and considered process for legislating in the Scottish Parliament. It starts with a fairly extensive and detailed consultation process, whether it is the Government or a member that is taking forward a bill. Indeed, you have a bill proposal, so you will have undertaken a consultation. That proposal develops into a specific legislative proposition and goes before a committee to consider in detail. I certainly do not think that the process is rushed. It does not take a long time; rather, it takes the appropriate amount of time to ensure that it is thorough and that all relevant stakeholders and interested parties can participate and get involved.

On the question of how valuable individuals might feel the process is, I can speak only for the Government and say that we find it very valuable. The three acts that we have discussed are still on the statute book and we still plan to take them forward. The consultation process that was undertaken in advance of those bills being laid before the Parliament and as they went through the parliamentary process was invaluable. No effort was wasted on the part of those who took part in the consultation process.