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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 April 2025
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Displaying 238 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

First of all, let me be clear: I do not think that the term “Oh well” came out of my mouth at any stage, Ms White. When I said that I am not involved, what I meant is that I am not involved in direct implementation because I am the Minister for Parliamentary Business. I do not have policy responsibility for that area—that is not in any way, shape or form to say that the area is unimportant. Given the level of detail with which Nel Whiting laid out the actions that have been taken to try to implement the act, it is unfair to suggest that nothing has happened at all.

The point was well made about the challenges that have been faced across Government, not just for this specific piece of important legislation but for a range of legislation—although I would observe that I do not think that delays are a systemic part of our approach to legislation. However, there are—and have been—challenges as a consequence of some of the bigger challenges that we have faced as a society.

The point was made that we have seen the 50 per cent uplift in cases reported through NHS Lothian partly as a consequence of some of the awareness-raising activities that we have undertaken. The existing resource in NHS Lothian was rediverted during Covid-19, and it is only as a consequence of having gone through that period that we have been able to refocus the activity. That speaks to the fundamental point that there is not only a challenge for the Government; there are also challenges for all of the stakeholders and all of the partners that are involved in the implementation of the FGM act—and of the other two acts that we are discussing today—because they have had to divert activity similarly.

However, in answer to your fundamental question: yes, I can understand why the women and girls out there who are relying on us to implement the act would be disappointed. I am disappointed, too. If you were to ask me, “Is it good enough? Is it acceptable that we face this delay?”, I would say that, in essence, no, it is not; but we are where we are. I am determined to make sure that we implement the FGM act as quickly as possible.

You mentioned the election. The election happens to be in 2026; that has absolutely nothing to do with the timescale in which we are seeking to implement the act.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will happily speak to that and bring in Simon Stockwell as is felt necessary.

Some of the challenge around delay relates to the points that I have already made. The Children (Scotland) Act 2020 is wide ranging and covers a range of complex implementation activity for regulating the child contact services sector, establishing a new register of child welfare reporters, setting up a pilot of information meetings and alternative dispute resolution, setting up funding for that, and ensuring that child advocacy services are available in contact and residence cases. There is a lot of complexity in there, which partly explains why there has been a delay.

However, a lot of the act has been implemented. Yes, there are delays to elements of it, but if you look across its various provisions, you can see that many elements are already in place. Some have been in place since 17 January 2021—namely, sections 15, 23 and 24. Others—sections 13, 14, 25 and 26—have been in place since 26 July 2021. Still others have been in place since October 2021. There are delays and challenges to some aspects of the act, but a lot of it has been implemented.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

Any legislation that comes with resource requirements poses a challenge in so far as we have to find that resource. However, we are committed to making sure that, where we take the act forward, it will be adequately resourced. We are bringing forward statutory instruments to further implement the provisions of the act; where resource is required, we will identify and deploy that.

Simon, do you want to say anything else?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will defer to Simon Stockwell, as he knows more about how the bairns’ hoose model is working in practice.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

Yes, I do. I could point to our statute book and make the point that, overall, where Parliament has decided to act and legislate, and where it is incumbent on the Government to take forward that legislation, across the board, that is what we seek to do. Sometimes, we face specific challenges, which we try to deal with. Although it may take a bit longer, we need to ensure that we address the challenges, too.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I think that I responded to that. There has been a result, which is that there are acts of the Parliament, and the consultation that took place in advance of the bills being laid before the Parliament informed the legislation. I thank those who took part in the consultation processes, as their efforts informed our consideration.

On one of the three acts that we are discussing today, the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, a substantial amount has already been enacted and put into effect. The consultation was an important part of the process. I make the point again that that work has not been wasted. It has informed the legislation and our on-going engagement with the stakeholders will continue to inform how we take forward the work as we seek to implement the act.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

To respond to that point, I am not directly involved in the sense of having policy responsibility in that area. However, as I have been invited to the committee, I will pay particular attention to the implementation of the act.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

What do you mean, “It just so happens”?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

The Scottish Government is not responsible for taking forward prosecutions. That would ultimately be a question for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service; it is not one that the Scottish Government can answer. The Scottish Government does not take forward prosecutions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

That remains the case. Covid-19 has had a substantial impact on the progression of a range of governmental activity, because people were required, as I think everyone would understand, to divert their attention to the immediate response to the pandemic. In that regard, there is a degree to which the Government has to play catch-up. There are capacity issues within the team delivering the implementation of the act. Nonetheless, work continues in that regard.

Clearly, we want to avoid any delay. The task at hand is to ensure that we take forward the provisions of the act. Resources have been mapped out for the implementation of the act and we hope to be able to fully implement it by spring 2026, but that will obviously require a lot of activity between now and then.

I do not know whether Nel has anything to add in that regard.