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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 April 2025
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Displaying 858 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It is not something that the Scottish Government can deliver. We must work with local authorities and trade unions. We would like to move forward quickly, with the trade unions. Our wish to deliver on that comes down to the brass tacks of planning and modelling whether that can be achieved, but we are pushing towards that. It will have different implications for different local authorities, for different sizes of schools and for primary and secondary schools. We need to get into those fine details.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The guidance remains as it was before Christmas. The guidance is based on the expert advice that the Government receives.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Can the convener tell me if anybody else can hear me?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Perhaps Mr Marra can come back to me in correspondence if he cannot hear me. I will carry on and see where we get to.

I said that the guidance had not changed from before Christmas. We listen very carefully to the expert advice on the issue. The £5 million is in addition to the £10 million that was given previously for CO2 monitoring and the previous allocation of £90 million for Covid logistics, which many local authorities have used part of for improved ventilation.

The ventilation support fund that was announced by the First Minister yesterday is to ensure that we are supporting the Scottish guidance on ventilation in schools, which is, as I said, the same as it was before Christmas. It will help to support any remedial action that is required. As I have said to Mr Marra and others, from the feedback that we get from local authorities, there is a very small amount of remedial action required for a small minority of spaces, but I wanted to ensure that funding was not a blockage, and that is the reason for the fund. It could be used for high-efficiency particulate absorbing filters if they were identified as the only appropriate solution for particular spaces.

However, once again, I point out that the expert advice that we are getting on this issue is that air-cleaning devices should not be used as an alternative to improving natural ventilation, and the updated guidance makes very clear the circumstances in which the use of air-cleaning and filtration devices might be appropriate. That is aligned with the advice that we are getting from the Health and Safety Executive. Therefore, the money is not simply for HEPA filters but is for whatever remedial action local authorities feel is required, and they can discuss that with Scottish Government colleagues.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Mr Marra—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We are working very quickly with local authorities to determine how to get the money out of the door as quickly as possible. If there is a wish to have funding provided, we want to be able to provide it in the current financial year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That ties in with the point that you raised about need being different among local authorities. It may vary, depending on, for example, the age of the schools and what is already in place in a school setting. It would seem more sensible for the money to be drawn down as required by local authorities, so that we can be sure that we are getting the money to where it is needed. Mr Greer rightly points to the information that we got back from the EIS survey, and I would highlight the feedback that we are getting from local authorities on their CO2 monitoring, which notes that very little remedial action is required at this point. We want to be able to direct the £5 million funding to where it is needed.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We have a wide range of surveys that go out. As I said, the health and wellbeing survey is one of those. We are keen to look at the data that we gather in general to ensure that it provides the information that we think we require. That is why we have a short-life working group looking at those aspects.

We also have the growing up in Scotland survey, which looks at some of the types of data that the member is talking about. I hope that that reassures the committee that we are keen to gather the right data in the right way to enable us to determine the impact of policies not just in education but in other areas, along with the impact of what is happening in society in general, on children and young people.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We will provide information about what is happening at a national level as soon as we can. I am sure that, at a local level, work is already on-going with schools and local authorities.

I do not think that anyone wants to be in a position whereby young people are concerned about the build-up to their exams or learning. That is why it is very important to reassure them that, throughout the entire academic year, continuous work has been done to ensure that work in relation to e-Sgoil and other e-learning opportunities has continued to be built on, and that will continue during the year. The feedback that we have had is that it is going down exceptionally well and is being well received by teachers and pupils. There has been an exceptional amount of work during the entire academic year to build on what is available to support children and young people, and we will continue to do that work.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Professor Ken Muir has now completed his consultation on the work, which is, again, in the current financial year and not the next one. The consultation was exceptionally well received by front-line staff and stakeholders and was very heavily used within that. On top of that, we have had discussions in the Scottish education council and the teachers panel to ensure that there is maximum consultation and discussion.

Ken Muir will now report back to me by the end of this month. I think that his recommendations will cover a lot of ground, but I will report back as quickly as I can with the Government’s response. After that process has happened, we will absolutely make sure that the on-going work has a key role for both the agencies that are involved in the reform process and the staff. It is difficult to determine at this point what that will be, because Professor Muir has not reported yet. However, I have reassured stakeholders that I am absolutely determined to have a very empowered reform process where front-line staff and, importantly, pupils have a key role in the process, and that is adequately accounted for in the budget.