Seòmar agus comataidhean

I take it that colleagues agree to proceed on that basis.

Members indicated agreement.

Talat Yaqoob was keen to come in. Talat, perhaps you could pick up Alexander Stewart’s point as well as the one that you were going to address.

Item 4 is consideration of two new petitions. I always say, for the benefit of those who might be joining us to watch the committee consider their petition, that we forward new petitions to the Scottish Government so that we can get some preliminary views, which help to inform our consideration.

The first new petition before us, PE1926, which has been lodged by Alison Dowling, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to expand the provision of free school meals universally to all nursery, primary and secondary school pupils. Alison has lodged the petition as she believes that urgent action is needed at a national level to address food poverty for children and young people. She suggests that food poverty is sometimes hidden in schools, particularly among secondary school-aged pupils. She notes that, although an extension of free school meals is planned for younger pupils, there are currently no plans in place for older, secondary school-aged pupils.

In its submission to the committee, the Scottish Government indicates that its present focus is on expanding the provision of free school meals in primary schools. However, it notes that

“during the course of this parliamentary session, we are also committed to piloting approaches to universal meal provision in secondary schools.”

Do members have any comments or suggestions as to how we might take forward the petition? My screen has gone blank. We have lost Paul Sweeney, so I will go to David Torrance.

I call Fergus Ewing.

Good morning and welcome to the sixth meeting in 2022 of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee.

We have a busy agenda this morning, and we start with a declaration of interests. Since we last met, Ruth Maguire has left the committee. I thank her for the work that she did in the short time she was with us, and I wish her well in the committee to which I understand she has now progressed. We are delighted to welcome Fergus Ewing MSP to the committee in her place.

Fergus, in the time-honoured tradition with which I am sure you are familiar, the floor is yours as we invite you to declare any interests that might be relevant to the committee.

For item 2, we will take evidence from a Scottish Government expert group—the institutionalising participatory and deliberative democracy working group, which I will refer to as the IPDD group from now on. It was established last summer and, in March this year, it published a report that set out a number of recommendations on how to

“make Scotland’s democracy more participative and inclusive.”

That is very relevant to the consideration that the committee is currently giving to that area as part of our remit.

I am delighted to welcome three members of the group. Kelly McBride, who is deliberative democracy lead with TPXimpact, is joining us in person. We also have Fiona Garven, who is director of the Scottish Community Development Centre, and Talat Yaqoob, who is an independent consultant and researcher, joining us online. Welcome to you all.

I understand that Kelly McBride has offered to determine who is best placed to answer each of our questions. For those of you participating virtually, if you put an R in the chat box, that will let the clerks know that you wish to come in.

We have a number of areas that we are keen to explore with the group. These follow on from our first evidence session with witnesses, who were from a broad spectrum, both internationally and here in the United Kingdom, with an expertise in this area.

We want to look at the operation of the group, the definitions that you have identified and the benefits of participatory and deliberative democracy. There is a section in the report that talks about the risks and the committee is keen to understand what the unforeseen consequences might be even of being successful in a deliberative democracy exercise. Some of the risks appear to be identified as risks that could come about if we do not succeed well enough, but there could be others too.

We also want to look at the group’s vision and recommendations and the next steps, because we are looking forward to receiving the Scottish Government’s response at some point, as I know you will be too.

We may also want to get some idea of the extent to which the Scottish Government left the group to do its own work and the extent to which you felt that you were getting encouraged to look at particular areas, which might then lead you to anticipate the nature of the response you might receive.

In so far as you are aware, how was the membership of the group established? Also, to what extent did the Scottish Government have any input into the thinking as it developed in the group once it was established?

Would Talat Yaqoob like to say anything on the construction of the group?

Thank you. As the consummate professional that you are, you anticipated where I was going to go with my next question. I was interested to know why the standards documents stand to one side. The theme is broadly similar to the one that you articulated in relation to some of the recommendations. We will probably touch on some of the groups, such as young people, who you mentioned.

You have set the scene on how the group operated, how the recommendations arose and what you thought the limits not of the recommendations but of the force behind them might have been. As we have discovered in our consideration of the issues, there are many voices to be considered in all of this, and although it may well be fortuitous if they come to similar views, we want to see whether that is actually what happens, rather than necessarily insisting that it be the case.

We will move on discuss the definitions, which are very interesting, with some questions from David Torrance.

That means a rather extended time before we can consider the petition in any informed way, but that is probably the right course of action. Are colleagues content with that suggestion?

Members indicated agreement.

Fiona Garven, do you want to add anything?