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Sorry.

Based on my time as a member of the committee and my time as Minister for Parliamentary Business, I note that people are always saying that we must legislate on this, that we need some legislation to do that, or that they want something to be on the first page of a bill. In this case, unusually, we have heard from a lot of people that some of it could have been done without our having to legislate. Culture change has been one of the issues, for example. What do you say to the arguments that have come up in our evidence sessions that we may have been able to do things slightly differently? That evidence has been highly unusual because, normally, people are always saying that we should legislate.

Good morning, cabinet secretary. Unlike Mr Bibby, when I see challenges, I try to think of ways of solving them. Perhaps that in itself is telling, as we move forward with this. Thank you for explaining to those who are having difficulty with it how the budget process works, cabinet secretary, but I think that there is something else that is telling, and Mr Bibby may well have accidentally stumbled on to a solution to the problem.

There is talk about uncertainty on the budget, and that is because of the way in which the devolution settlement works—that has always been the case. I have been here long enough and have been in enough committees across different portfolios to know that the same argument is made in relation to other portfolios as well. Mr Bibby has stumbled upon the idea that, if we had multiyear budgets from the UK Government, that might be a solution and might help with moving away from the uncertainty, difficulties and challenges in many of the sectors that the Government supports.

In the past, some people—not you—have almost talked down the culture sector. However, traditionally, the sector has dealt with challenging political and financial times, and it has always been very resilient. In fact, you and I will remember the dim and dark 1980s, when the culture sector was Scotland—it was our political voice, because this place did not exist. Surely, the culture sector is not in the place that some people say. It has always been a resilient sector that has been able to come forward with new ways of working and new ideas to push forward Scotland in the world.

I have one final question, which is on the review of Creative Scotland. Various creative organisations have given evidence during the budget process. You mentioned that Creative Scotland has not changed since its inception. I might have a wee bit of skin in this game, because I asked Iain Munro what the point is of him and of Creative Scotland. I might have been a wee bit brutal with him, but that was basically because I was not getting answers. I then got a history lesson on why a national arts council was created after the war.

Given what Mr Harvie said about the games industry and given that Screen Scotland, as an offshoot of Creative Scotland, has been an absolute screaming success, if we are looking at changing or reviewing Creative Scotland, there are surely different ways of working and Creative Scotland maybe needs to start thinking about coming into the 21st century and moving forward.

Good morning. I will follow on from Bill Kidd’s questions about inspections. Do you think that the inspection process should be more prescriptive, or do you believe that it should be more flexible? We have heard different views from different people and different organisations on that. From your description, it is a bit of both: you are there to do a job and you have some flexibility as to how you go about it. However, that is not what we heard from the EIS and some of the other teaching unions. How does the bill relate to that, and do you have any ideas as to how we move forward on it?

I can understand how those who work in education can find the situation difficult. Last week, we were told that those who work in teaching find the inspection process to be stressful and a strain. I can understand that because, in my previous working life, I was in corporate sales in the motor industry and when someone from the manufacturer came into the dealership and said that they were there to help, you never really thought that that was the case—you just had to get by, whatever the process was.

In the real world, how can we get to the stage where everyone feels that they are getting value from the inspection, after issues have been dealt with? Part of the problem that we have with inspections is that people feel similarly to how, in my previous working life, my colleagues and I felt—we all went, “Oh, thank God, that’s over and done with.”

I have a general question for everyone. Do any of the witnesses have a view on the different types of educational establishment that should come under the inspectorate under the bill?

To follow on from Willie Rennie’s question, I note that we had the teaching unions in last week, and they have a simple solution, which is to take every one of you out of the equation and just put them in there, because they have all the answers. They know what learners want and how the system works, and they think that they are the ones who can do it all. They think that that would simplify the whole process, rather than have this 1940s MGM musical chorus line kind of a committee. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaking as a parent, and a grandparent now, one of the most important aspects is that you want the best for your children and grandchildren. I might have overegged my initial question a bit, but I was quite struck by the fact that education professionals came in and said:

“teacher voice will ... be cognisant of the interests of learners”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 25 September 2024; c 35.]

That was the actual quotation. I am more on your side with this. If we take out the political element that Gavin Yates brought up—although, for us, it is important—at the end of the day, parents just want what is best for their children, and children want to be valued and engaged in the process.

Given the massive number of stakeholders, how do we get the process to be constructive and make everybody feel that they are getting something out of it?