Seòmar agus comataidhean

I know that only too well.

I agree. Sometimes, we are going to ask questions, and we will get answers that we probably do not expect, as you say. As I have already said, it will be extremely interesting to see what a citizens assembly on local government finance comes back with when its members are presented with all the facts in front of them. It might not necessarily be an answer that any of us in this room would think that it might be.

On how we deal with and manage these things, I always use this example. Again, when I was a councillor, I was on Renfrewshire access panels for those with disabilities—there were such panels all over Scotland. Initially, I went into the room and found angry people who were not being listened to by the local authority. I got to the stage of getting them involved, exactly as you say. I said, “The town hall’s being renovated and you’re part of the planning process—get in there and find out how we can make it accessible.” It is about ensuring that people can be involved and actually deliver something. That is always going to be the most important thing.

Is that easy to achieve? No. Is it challenging? Yes, but nothing good in life that is worth doing is easy. We are all used to the political process—as you quite rightly said, Mr Sweeney—and how we deal with such things, but this is a completely different animal. It is a situation in which the public may, on certain occasions, give us answers that we will be surprised by. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. Does Government need to take those answers seriously when they come in? Yes, it does. Will that be challenging as we go forward? Probably, but we need to roll up our sleeves and get on with it.

Doreen Grove brings up a valid point, which is one of the points that I brought up earlier about the make-up of citizens assemblies and various organisations. From my time in local government, I remember that, a lot of the time, the usual suspects turned up at absolutely everything. David Torrance is nodding, because he remembers that from those days as well.

In relation to the young people’s assembly that we were talking about, one of the first things that I asked Doreen was, “How do we get the young man and woman from Ferguslie Park?” I used the term “the hard-to-reach people”, and Doreen, quite rightly, corrected me at that stage and said, “That language is part of the problem, because you are saying that they are hard to reach.” That is just shorthand that we use as politicians.

How do we make those assemblies valid and get those people involved? It goes back to ensuring that that requirement is enshrined as part of the process of how assemblies are delivered, and making sure that the question that we are asking means something to the individuals. I am not saying that it will be easy, because it is challenging, but it is one of the things that I want to make sure of. I do not want to have a room full of people for whom it is yet another organisation or thing that they have got involved in, because I do not think that we would get the value that we really need.

Doreen Grove has sharp elbows, right enough.

The lesson that I learned from the ones that we have had is on the complexity of the questions. We need to find ways to allow the public to debate complex issues.

I think that it was the Republic of Ireland that held a citizens assembly on abortion. It looked at a very difficult question for people in Ireland, and the process delivered on that. Sometimes, it might be helpful for us as politicians to do that to consider issues that we have had difficulty with, regardless of party politics. That might be a way for us to listen to what the public say. I used the example of end-of-life choices as a perfect example of a matter on which, we are led to believe, the public has a specific opinion. However, the Parliament seems to see the issue differently, considering the votes on Margo MacDonald’s bill on end of life assistance in the previous parliamentary session. Citizens assemblies can be very helpful on that front, but, again, it comes down how the question is put. It is not so much about keeping the question simple but about having the assembly in a way that allows us to have the discussion and move on.

The first two citizens assemblies on climate change and Scotland’s future were complex. Scotland’s future and saving the planet: those are big, big questions. If you have read what came out of those assemblies, you will know that they were very complex. There was no definitive statement, such as, “We want you to do X, Y and Z.” It might just be me, but I am trying to think about how I can deliver on what the public have said. For me, that is the big important part. Doreen Grove has been involved on a daily basis with all the groups, so she will probably be able to give you more detail.

I will back up what Doreen said. The process gives Government the opportunity to look at complex and difficult problems and to make decisions on those, once the public has considered them.

I will ask Doreen Grove to answer that.

Doreen Grove and I were talking about that on the way here. As with all things in life, it is probably best that we step back and look at the information, at this stage. Given the public’s expectation, if we get it wrong at this stage we will not recover. The convener alluded to that earlier. We will therefore take our time to make sure that we get the process correct so that we can deliver for the people who will be involved.

It struck me, when I was talking to people who were involved in previous citizens assemblies, how enthusiastic they were about absolutely everything to do with the process and how they felt that it had engaged them politically again. For us, that is obviously important. Politicians can all fall out and discuss the various points of the day, but the public can take a step back from the process, which is one of the advantages of participatory democracy. We will make sure that we get it right and will take time to deal with the issues.

Doreen Grove might have something to add—or she might contradict everything that I said.

Well, it works for me.

Best practice in regard to what?