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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 November 2025
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Displaying 902 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

Andrew, what I am trying to say is that these things can be experienced by young people and learners in other areas. You might have, say, a sports team going on tour, having to fundraise for that and so on, and there will be an overnight element to that, too. I probably remember those kinds of sporting endeavours and overnight stays with teams more than my time in Ardentinny as a kid. I know that the world has changed quite a lot since I was that age, but surely there is an argument to be made that it is not just this type of outdoor experience or residential stay that makes that difference in young people’s lives. Other people are motivated by other things.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

Your buildings are as old as me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

I am glad that you are telling me that it is more than just kayaking, bows and arrows and running about the place, because that was what we heard from two individuals in particular at last week’s evidence-gathering session, which made it sound like practices had not changed since the days that I was there. Unlike Pam Duncan-Glancy, that does not feel to me like that was yesterday.

I think that Nick March said there is a difference between outdoor education and outdoor recreation. I am interested to find out more about that. How do you make that distinction? You have already said that the highest capacity of beds are for recreational purposes. How many young people are getting access to outdoor education, and how do you package that for the individual and the group at the same time? That is quite a lot to respond to.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

Freda Fallon, you have been talking at length about what you do when you know that someone is coming to you—you go to the school and work out a programme. Does that happen for every child? That could be quite challenging. It would be like piecing together a jigsaw. You might have children who have an additional support need—or more than one, nowadays—while ensuring that you cater for the whole class or group. How do you manage to do that? How practical is it to do that for just about every pupil who is getting involved?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

That kind of comes across, Freda. [Laughter.]

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

Tara, you have talked about the challenges facing your members and the fact that teachers are having to engage almost in a plate-spinning exercise to ensure that they are getting everything done. How do they ensure that young people can achieve all of this? Surely they will say, “We know that certain young people engage in certain ways, and this might not necessarily be the way to do it.” You have already mentioned that your members believe that day trips, for example, have a lot more value.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

You mentioned that there might be some capacity issues, should this sort of thing become mandatory and part of the curriculum, and you also said you had a fear of money that had been going into education being taken out of it. When you said that, I got a wee bit frightened, too. Can you elaborate on that a wee bit more? I can see where you are coming from, and I think that it is an important point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

I see that Phil Thompson’s buildings have been there since 1939.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

I have a final question for Tara Lillis. In your written evidence, you say that you have advised members to participate only in visits with “clear educational outcomes” and proper approval. You have gone further than that today, saying that on the whole you advise them not to go, because of all kinds of other things. That is quite concerning in itself; I am also quite concerned by your comment that this could open up teachers’ pay and conditions. Can you give me some further detail on why that is such a major issue? It probably affects the financial memorandum, as Matthew Sweeney mentioned earlier.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

George Adam

Where do you see that funding coming from? Is that a mishmash or—