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One thing that Ben Farrugia mentioned was times—you might be able to help with this as well, Alison. I cannot remember the hours that he said that social workers are given—I think that it was two hours with a family and four hours for writing the report.

Convener, can other members make points about how they feel about the report?

I think that there was somebody behind you doing the “Cut” sign at that point, Fraser. You must be pretty confident if you are committing to that here today.

I want to ask about future workforce development. We have all heard about the challenges. Fraser mentioned the Audit Scotland report that he was involved in all those years ago—in fact, I think that I was on the committee that went through that report at the time. The challenges today are very similar to what they were then, in that many people who are involved in social work are going to third sector organisations, because those actually deliver services, which is what people want to do. They are not caught up in the statutory part of being in a local authority, which always makes things a wee bit more challenging for individuals.

Looking at the challenges, we see that there are insufficient applicant numbers, an experience gap in relation to candidates, pay competitiveness issues and the usual rural recruitment challenges, which apply across the board and not just to this issue. As we look to the future, how will we encourage people to come into the profession? There is always a stack of people who want to come in and help people by being social workers but, in the cold light of day, the challenges are there and it becomes difficult for them. How do we pitch the idea that the role is a way forward so that we get the type of people who we want to be involved and can deliver the Promise?

Yes, I get that.

Basically, that is an issue. I know that councils and local authorities think this way when doing their budgets, but from a sheer management perspective, it costs a lot more for a social worker to do that reporting than it would for an administrator to do it. Surely councils should be looking at ways of having that administrative support in place. That makes sense to me. Having been a councillor, I know that there would be a budget line for that. It is one that I would look at and say no to.

What do you think of the graduate scheme?

Okay, then.

I have no further questions.

When you are looking at different ways of working, you need to consider the bare bones of things. When a social worker turns up to support a family and says, “I’m from the council—I’m here to help”, the idea that they are there to help is not the person’s first thought. However, if the social worker says that they are from a third sector or other organisation, the person might automatically say what their problem is and be more open. Are there other ways that we can work to ensure that families actually engage? I am not saying that social workers are not professionals or that they are not doing their job to the best of their ability. All I am saying is that families always put up a barrier when someone says, “I’m here from the council—I’m here to help”, because that is not something that people often hear.

You mentioned the graduate apprenticeship programme. Do you see that as a way forward? Would people be working in local communities and delivering from day 1? It is not a case of having your qualification, turning up and chapping at the door along with someone who is more senior, is it?