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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 830 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

The Scottish Information Commissioner, David Hamilton, made that point to the committee when he came to give evidence a few weeks ago—namely, that even he could not properly get a handle on how many public bodies there are in Scotland, despite the role that his office has in securing freedom of information.

Dr Gill, in your 2023 report on creating new public bodies, “When should public bodies exist? Rewriting the ‘three tests’ for when government does things at arm’s length”, you challenged the idea that they should be created only as a last resort. Can you explain your thinking?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Dr Lamont, I have a specific question about your paper. First, however, do have you any thoughts on that broader question?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I want to ask Matthew Gill about that aspect. In your 2023 report you proposed three new tests for establishing a public body, which involved considering effectiveness, independence and cost efficiency. What are your thoughts are on this issue and on the interaction with the current criteria that the Parliament has set?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I do not want to put words in your mouth, but we are trying to extrapolate lessons for us from your research. In essence, are you saying that someone with a purely advocacy role is of limited value?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

You co-wrote a paper with Pamela Cox and Maurice Sunkin on the case for the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. That is relevant because, right now, this Parliament is discussing a proposed victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. I think that the convener sits on the committee that is considering that bill, although I do not.

I read the paper with interest, and what really struck me was your conclusion. Forgive me for paraphrasing, and correct me if I have this wrong but, in effect, you put the question: if the new commissioner is not to be given statutory powers, is it really worth having him or her? For the benefit of the committee, will you elaborate a little on your thinking in reaching that conclusion?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Good morning, panel. Alison Payne has reminded me that Reform Scotland published an excellent paper last year on parliamentary reform. I cannot quite remember who wrote it, but I commend it to colleagues.

To come back to the issue that I want to pursue, we already have set criteria for the creation of new SPCB-supported bodies. This committee’s purpose is to consider whether the criteria are still fit for purpose. I want to start by asking you all for your views on the criteria that need to be set. Are the existing criteria fit for purpose? If not, how do we ensure that, to address some of the concerns that you have raised, we are not overlapping functions that could be done by other bodies?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

That is a fair point, which we have previously heard made by other witnesses from whom we have taken evidence.

Reform Scotland’s written submission says that the criteria have not been followed, and the Parliament has just ignored them, which I think is probably fair comment. Can we produce criteria that will be solid enough?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

We should not just rule out new commissioners for the sake of it, as there might be a case for them.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Good morning, cabinet secretary. Good morning, Dr Malik—it is nice to see you. Dr Malik and I shared a very interesting visit to Sidey, in Perth, for Scottish apprenticeship week. We might come back to that in a minute.

Cabinet secretary, in your opening remarks you talked about how the Government has built good, strong relationships with business. The deputy convener referenced the evidence that we got from Tony Rodgers, from Emtelle UK Ltd. Emtelle is a Scotland-headquartered manufacturing company with international operations employing hundreds of people. I will quote from the Official Report what he said to us.

“I have no interaction with the Scottish Government whatsoever. I had never heard of this new deal and had no idea about it. Quite frankly, when I have approached the Scottish Government, it has been very difficult, as a businessperson in Scotland, to make any sort of contact or inroads, or to make any kind of representation of a case.”—[Official Report, Economy and Fair Work Committee, 26 February 2025; c 2.]

That is a direct quote from what he told us. Does that suggest that there is still an issue? Emtelle is a business in the tech sector—a high-growth sector—that you would have thought should be precisely at the heart of what the Government is trying to do, yet Mr Rodgers told us that he has never even heard of the new deal.