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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 July 2025
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Displaying 881 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

Yes. I am happy to provide any further information that would be useful.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

The additional allocation that we have made this year for the tree-planting programme is to see 16,500 hectares of tree planting, which will be taken forward by Forestry and Land Scotland. When you ask me specifically how we are going to achieve that, do you mean in terms of areas or something else?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

Based on the budget allocation that we have made for this particular element and the discussion that we have had with Forestry and Land Scotland, the expectation is that it can meet that target of 16,500 hectares.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

The public performance measure is not often closely associated with the financing of the frequency of services. It is often affected by the impact of infrastructure failure on the operation of rail services or by staffing levels. I am confident that we have sufficient funding in our resource allocation to allow ScotRail to be able to sufficiently staff services.

However, as the committee will know, historically, infrastructure failure has the biggest impact on PPM. The question might therefore be whether sufficient investment is going into infrastructure to reduce the adverse impact that its failure has on PPM. That continues to be an issue, and my view is that Network Rail can do much more to get value for money from the amount of investment that goes into rail services infrastructure and the costs associated with that. Anyone familiar with the detail about the rail industry knows that infrastructure failure is the factor that has the greatest impact on PPM. Reducing the number of failures requires investment from Network Rail, not just by introducing new technology and updating and digitalising systems, but also by ensuring that there is a proper maintenance programme to reduce the risk of failure.

Is there more that we can do to help achieve the PPM? Yes. Industrial action will be having a big impact on the PPM just now. However, I am confident that we are making enough investment in ScotRail to allow it to operate the level of service that there is a demand for, and also for it to have the staffing levels to achieve that. However, Network Rail could do more to get greater efficiency from infrastructure investment.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

Yes; there is no point to having a bus pass if you cannot get access to a bus. I recognise the challenges that communities have. Our rural communities are probably more adversely impacted than some of our urban communities, where there are alternative options. I recognise that.

I made the point that I do not think that the existing model is sustainable, and Covid has brought that into even sharper relief. That is why an alternative approach is necessary, and I think that the powers in the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 can deliver a much more sustainable and consistent form of public transport.

If we are to make public transport attractive to people, it needs to be safe, reliable and priced at a level that people feel is affordable. Over the next couple of years, there will be a big opportunity to reset the way in which bus services are provided in the country. From engagement with local authorities, I am encouraged to learn that some of them are increasingly determined to consider how they can change the model that is operating in their area. I think that there is the potential to change quite considerably the way in which services are operating.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

Earlier last year, we ran a public information campaign about the range of help and support that is available to people having challenges with their energy bills. Within that, there was provision for energy efficiency measures. It was part of a wider Government programme. What we ran in November was very specifically about trying to create greater awareness of this particular programme, because the level of demand was not in line with what we expected it to be. I do not know why that was the case. It is not that we were doing nothing about making people aware of the help that was available, but we did even more in November and we will do more this year.

I do not know whether it was partly about the timeline between people thinking about the impact and then getting their bills and seeing the impact. In my personal circumstances, there was almost a lag, in that you knew that things were going to become much more expensive before the costs actually hit you. That might have had a bit of an impact, in that people were thinking about it before it happened and then it was possibly not as bad as they thought it would be—I do not know.

However, we had a public information campaign last year, including the website that Shona Robison developed, about the help and support that were available to people in relation to that wider cost challenge on the community side. However, what happened in November was very bespoke and specific in relation to trying to get more people to understand what was available on the energy efficiency side. I hope that that reassures you that it was not a case of doing nothing; it was just that we did something much more bespoke in November because we had not seen the level of uptick that we had hoped for.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

We have gone through a period in which, because it is a demand-led budget, demand has not quite kept pace with budget allocation, which meant that the level of demand was not quite using all the budget that was available, whether in the warmer homes programme or the area-based schemes. There are a number of reasons for that. The sector has highlighted to us that a combination of skills and materials had an impact on delivering some of the programmes.

We have tried to raise public awareness. In November last year, we started a publicity campaign to highlight the schemes and increase awareness of how people can access them. Since then, we have seen a bit of an uptick in demand and the industry is trying to develop the breadth of skills that it needs to drive forward some of the programmes. We also plan a further public information programme later this year to highlight to people the scope of the programmes.

The purpose behind the policy is to reduce fuel poverty. The cheapest form of fuel that you can get is the fuel that you do not use, so greater efficiencies are a key part of the policy. Warmer homes Scotland, which is the Home Energy Scotland programme, the Business Energy Scotland programme and the area-based schemes are all about reducing energy demand and making properties more heat efficient. That will continue to be a priority during the coming years, not just this financial year, given the need to reduce fuel poverty and the demand for energy.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 January 2023

Michael Matheson

I have made broad mention of skills and materials. Part of the issue around materials is a result of the closedown in some areas during the pandemic and, as demand has started to increase, there have been challenges in accessing some material. However, that is not so much of an issue now.

The other issue is access to skills. There is no doubt that there is a real constraint on labour in the sector. I think that I might have told the committee before that, from a discussion that I had with one of the companies that are involved in the area-based scheme in the central belt, it is clear that it is really struggling to recruit the staff that it needs to roll out the programme even faster. The principal reason for that is because the company lost access to a significant number of staff from eastern Europe.

The company has an apprenticeship-based scheme through which it trains people, and the hope is that they will stay in the industry. However, the company flagged to me—I will paraphrase what I was told—that, even were the budget to be doubled, the company would not be able to utilise that as it does not have access to skills, despite the training that it is doing and its work with industry, because it has lost access to labour from eastern Europe. That constraint has had a direct impact on the company. That is a fact; there is no getting away from that.

We must work with the training organisations, the industry and our colleges to make sure that we are focusing on the skills that are necessary to support those industries. However, labour constraints is still a significant issue.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Michael Matheson

I am pleased to give evidence to the committee in support of the draft affirmative instrument to amend the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Order 2020. This spring, the United Kingdom emissions trading scheme authority, which is formed of the four UK Administrations, consulted on proposals to further develop the UK ETS, aligning the scheme with our ambitious net zero targets. The authority is still considering the consultation responses regarding proposals on tightening the cap and expanding the scope. We will publish a joint Government response in due course.

However, some of the operational and technical changes to the UK ETS need to come into force by 2023 and therefore the authority published an early joint Government response covering those amendments to the scheme. Together, the amendments will support the proper function of the ETS.

The amendments are contained in the draft affirmative instrument that the committee is considering today and in a negative instrument to be laid later in November. Today’s affirmative instrument will allow flights from Great Britain to Switzerland to be in scope of the UK ETS. That expansion of the scope will be extended to include Northern Ireland at a later date. Switzerland has already amended its ETS to include flights from Switzerland to the UK. The affirmative instrument will ensure a fully reciprocal arrangement that supports our climate objectives.

The instrument also makes minor amendments to the allocation of free allowances in the ETS to reflect the inclusion of the flights within the scheme. The other members of the authority are also going through a similar scrutiny process in their respective Parliaments to ensure that the legislation is consistent across all Administrations.

Ahead of publishing the final Government response to the consultation, we expect the UK ETS authority to publish the common framework agreement setting out how the four Administrations work together to deliver the UK ETS. I will be happy to provide more details on those issues once those have been published.

I am happy to respond to any questions on the affirmative instrument that the committee may have.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Michael Matheson

The effects have been very small. To some extent it will not make a significant difference. It is worth keeping in mind that, when we were covered by the European Union ETS, those flights were included. The order is simply covering a gap that was left when the UK ETS was introduced. Given that there are only a small number of flights between Scotland and Switzerland, and indeed between Switzerland and the UK as a whole, the overall impact is very small. However, I cannot give you specific data on that.