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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 November 2025
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Displaying 991 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

That is interesting. I suppose that you could get into a debate about the deterrent effect, as it might depend on the starting point of your environmental regulations and environmental law; once you create a criminal offence, there is the issue of how to enforce it, which also depends on your starting point.

I am interested to know what evidence base there is to support claims that the new offence will create a deterrent, compared with where we are just now. At one point, it was suggested that there has been an increase in the number of complaints but that the number of prosecutions has almost reached nil. Does that mean that a greater level of environmental harm is taking place now because there is not the level of enforcement that we would expect? There is an interesting relationship in there, which would need to be explored.

I will pick up on the issue of section 40 of the Regulatory Reform Act 2014. In its written evidence, SEPA suggests that an alternative route to the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill could be the creation of an offence that is equivalent to ecocide through amending the 2014 act. Would that be a preferable route to deal with the issue, rather than introducing a new piece of legislation?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Thanks.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Would it therefore be fair to characterise the Scottish Government’s position in the LCMs as an interim position? That is, the Scottish Government supports the intention behind the bill and supports agreeing to a legislative consent motion, but, if the outstanding areas that you have concerns about are not sufficiently addressed by the UK Government, the potential final position of the Scottish Government could be to withhold consent. Am I understanding that correctly?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

If you do not get agreement on those clauses—I do not know what the timeframe looks like—is it possible that the Scottish Government would recommend that legislative consent be withheld?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Okay. You have taken a negotiating position.

I turn to the issue of SAF. You correctly pointed out that there is significant potential for the manufacturing of SAF in Scotland. From the Scottish Government’s perspective, will you give us a sense of where the greatest potential is for sustainable aviation fuel? Is it in the first, second or third generation of SAF? Will the timeframe for the development of those three generations of SAF be different over the course of the next 10 years?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Good morning. I will turn to the Scottish Government’s position in the legislative consent memorandums, which is to consent to the bill but to withhold consent on four or five clauses of the bill as it stands. That includes clauses 1 and 3, which relate to the revenue certainty contracts and how they are allocated to SAF producers. For each of the clauses from which you recommend withholding consent, will you explain the particular points that touch on devolution that you feel need to be addressed in order to get agreement with the UK Government?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Thank you. Campbell Gemmell, did you want to come in?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Looking at the timeframe and the capital investment that is needed for some of those projects, I wish that I could share your optimism on what will come from project willow, to be perfectly frank. I am not aware that Scottish Enterprise has created any new jobs in Grangemouth as yet. Most of the stuff from project willow is five, six or, in some cases, 10 years away, so I do not share your optimism on that.

Is there Government-to-Government engagement on the advanced fuels fund and whether more could be deployed for Scotland-based projects? The evidence that we heard yesterday was very much that power to liquids is where the real growth area will be in the future. The best place to do that is where there is significant access to renewable energy at low cost, and that is Scotland. Are there Government-to-Government discussions about the deployment of that fund?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Are you concerned that, if the bill were to be introduced as drafted, with this new offence, there is a danger of confusion between the bill and section 40 of the 2014 act?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 November 2025

Michael Matheson

Mark, do you think that it would be simpler to amend the existing regulatory framework?