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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 3014 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I will go back briefly to Emily Nurse’s points about the interim targets for 2030 and 2040. There was a great sense of loss, particularly among people in the climate movement, about the interim 2030 target being, in effect, dropped. Obviously, it is now being replaced by a budgeting mechanism. Do you have thoughts on how it can still be articulated? It was about getting three quarters of the way to net zero by 2030. Even if that is not now possible, albeit that we might be three quarters of the way there by 2032 or 2033, people are perhaps still looking for a kind of metric—a measure—although, obviously, the actions are far more important than the targets. Do you have thoughts about how that could be articulated in the bill, if that is not already done?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Thanks for that.

I will stay with you, Emily. I think that the majority of the advice that you provide next spring will be on the seventh carbon budget, which covers the period from 2037 to 2042. How much more advice does the Scottish Government need right now to prepare for a plan that leads up to that seventh budget? Do you and your colleagues need to bring forward a lot of new work to enable the Scottish Government to produce those early first budgets and a climate change plan for that initial period?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Graeme Roy, do you want to come in?

10:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Emily Nurse, I put that question to you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Do the witnesses from the SFC and the IPPR think that the Scottish Government needs more information in order to devise the first carbon budget? Is any crucial information lacking?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

In many ways, it feels like we have been looking at only half the picture. We have been looking at climate and carbon but we have not been looking in sufficient detail at the action, the planning and the fiscal environment to deliver those actions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Does the way that the bill is structured provide enough time between the CCC offering the technical advice and the Scottish Government—in a chicken-and-egg way—then having to devise a carbon budget that includes all the considerations about what actions are necessary and whether they are affordable to deliver? Is there enough time allowed in the bill to work up that detail, which is essential to our staying on track? Should a specific timeframe be set out in legislation? Is there enough time at the moment?

Emily Nurse, do you have any thoughts on the process post the CCC advice?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I am not sure where we are with time, convener. Is there time for other panel members to come in?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Our witnesses have already touched on aspects of my question in what has been a really great evidence session so far. I want to ask about the way in which the Scottish Government constructs its budgets. You will be aware of the recommendations of the joint working group between the Parliament and the Government, which resulted in colour coding of some budgets, which Professor Ulph alluded to earlier. How far does that approach now need to deepen within the Scottish Government, so that we get the transparency that you have been describing and clarity on the impact of carbon on certain budget decisions and how that might translate into long-term action? Have you any brief reflections on the Government’s progress on its journey towards carbon proofing its work and its considerations?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I presume that that outturn will also tell us about, say, the public sector’s capacity to deliver on low-carbon infrastructure.

I ask you to hold that thought while I move on to ask David Hawkey and Emily Nurse for their reflections on how we got here—on whether public bodies, the Scottish Government and the civil service could have done things differently on the 2020 target. Did certain policies fall off the cliff, perhaps because they were not being developed fast enough between the setting of the 2019 target and where we have got to today? Your brief reflections on that would be useful. Perhaps David could start.