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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 2629 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

I will come back briefly to the third group of scope 3 emissions, which are the emissions that are hard to measure and that councils do not measure at the moment. There is a question about whether you think it is worth measuring them in the future. I suppose simplistically, it looks as if measuring is worth while in order to create leverage in procurement contracts and other areas. If you do not measure—if you do not have a figure for what the catering franchise delivers, how the social care that you engage with will reduce its emissions, or how the bus franchise will reduce its emissions—what are the levers for contractual obligations and negotiations? Is public procurement so far advanced that that does not matter and we do not need to measure that stuff because it is built into the procurement process and it will always deliver a reduction in carbon emissions, or are we trying to use reporting to strengthen an inherently weak public procurement system in local government?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

George Tarvit and Clare Wharmby want to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

The examples that we discussed earlier were public transport, social care and catering. Those are big areas of council spend. I am interested in how many councils are currently able or willing to provide that information.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

Do you have 14 franchises down there?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

Yes. I have a concern about this SSI. Obviously, concerns have been expressed about bus franchising, and I think that it is fair to say that the history of rolling out bus franchises across the UK is a pretty chequered one. I am aware that this SSI comes out of the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019, but there is currently a petition before the Parliament from Get Glasgow Moving, which has raised significant concerns about the process set out in the SSI, particularly the role of unelected officials in deciding whether a franchise can go ahead.

I think, therefore, that we are at quite a critical point. I know that Strathclyde Partnership for Transport is looking into the potential of franchising, and given that it will take significant investment just to do that preparatory work, there is a need for clarity on how this will work and whether there might be any intentional or unintentional biases or conflicts of interest within the panel that is appointed.

As a result, it is important that the committee takes evidence, certainly from the petitioners and those with experience of how similar franchising decision-making processes have been working down south, and that we reflect on that, ahead of Parliament making a decision to let this SSI pass—or not, as the case might be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

I think that it requires an evidence session, yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

Are you are saying that it is impossible to work out the carbon impact of the care sector?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

Mark Roberts, do you want to come in?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

I am just trying to think this one through. We have mentioned social care. Surely there are also opportunities for saving money, whether that is about low-carbon heating systems or electric vehicles. It seems that the process is being presented as a problem, whereas actually is it not a way to deliver more efficiencies in public sector services as well as, ultimately, reducing carbon? Is that not why it is worth measuring the emissions?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Standards Scotland Climate Change Targets Delivery Improvement Report

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Mark Ruskell

Yes, but do you see a difference between a public contract where public money goes into, say, a catering service in a school and what happens next door in McDonald’s? What happens next door at McDonald’s is wrapped up in area-based reporting, which is about what happens within the general council area, but there is a direct link to public spend. Our taxpayers’ money goes into supporting public services. Should there be more climate carbon accounting for that? I am trying to understand why it is fine to push that off-limits a bit and say, “It’s a bit too hard. There are difficult decisions to make and it’s all captured by the general carbon reduction within a council area.” That does not feel quite right to me.

10:45