Chamber and committees

Here we are again, debating a groundhog day motion on oil and gas from the Tories. It seems that they are having trouble keeping up with the changing world and the changing nature of the debate.

For Mr Kerr’s sake, let us rewind a bit and go back to what the world was saying all those months ago in the run-up to COP26. The United Nations secretary general said that countries should

“end all new fossil fuel exploration and production and shift fossil fuel subsidies into renewable energy.”

I say to Mr Kerr that that is about getting real.

The International Energy Agency said:

“If governments are serious about the climate crisis, there can be no new investments in oil, gas and coal, from now—from this year.”

That is about getting real.

Lord Deben, who is chair of the UK Climate Change Committee, told Mr Kerr in this very Parliament that

“the justification for any new oil and gas exploration or production has to be very strong indeed, and I cannot say that I have seen that so far.”—[Official Report, Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, 31 August 2021; c 20.]

That is also about getting real.

If there is time in hand, I will give way to Mr Carson.

That is precisely why the Scottish Government is now assessing what our domestic energy requirements are and how those requirements relate to the fields that we have in the North Sea, where we have 6 billion barrels of oil and gas, some of which could meet our domestic energy needs.

I will take Mr Kerr to November, COP26 and the Glasgow agreement. In the text of that agreement, there was a welcome recognition of the need for a just transition and of the need to phase out fossil fuel subsidies. However, the failure of the agreement to commit to a global phase-out of coal was largely due to there being no matching commitment from richer countries to phase out our oil and gas.

It is clear what the world has to do to keep 1.5°C alive. The only responsible way forward globally is a managed transition and phase-out of oil and gas over time, rather than a sudden and deferred collapse in the future. Colin Smyth is right to remind the Tories of their unjust transition for coal mining communities in the 1980s, which left so many generations on the scrap heap.

A managed transition is the only way that we can ensure that oil and gas workers are not left behind. It is disappointing to hear the industry continue to make the case for the licensing of new reserves. Mr Kerr will have heard Oil & Gas UK speak yesterday at the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee about how it wants to upscale from 6 billion barrels to 18 billion barrels in the North Sea in the years ahead, and how maximum economic recovery is somehow consistent with both a just transition and the goal of 1.5°C. It is no wonder that public polling shows a distrust in the industry to lead its own transition.

We need strategic leadership from Governments to protect the climate and workers. We need to work within our planetary limits. That should not be a barrier to innovation and the growth of business opportunities, because it is the very catalyst that we need for change and to create new markets, crowd in investment and deliver long-term stable and fair jobs for the future. That is the debate that we will be having in the chamber, but it looks as though the Tories are not interested in having it.

The minister has described the enormous sum of money that has been invested in the bus industry in recent years, but is there not a case for some conditionality with regard to services to ensure that there is no weighting in favour of cutting rural services, which seems to be inherent in a lot of the choices that these companies are making? Indeed, what lies at the heart of this debate is that kind of weighting, which is being felt disproportionately by rural communities simply because they do not have the numbers that stack up on a spreadsheet.

I will in a minute.

In September, in response to the recent gas price crisis, the UK Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, Kwasi Kwarteng, said that the way forward was

“to build a strong, home-grown renewable energy sector to further reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.”

That is also about getting real.

Thank you. Back to you, convener.

That answer perhaps addresses the question about the 80 per cent of natural gas that will still need to be used within the gas grid for blending.

I invite Mr Dalhuijsen to comment, to give another perspective on things.

Time is moving on. Mr Dalhuijsen, do you want to answer any of those points or speak about waste incinerators?

It helps a little bit.

I have another follow-up question. The Government’s “Update to the Climate Change Plan 2018-2032: Securing a Green Recovery on a Path to Net Zero” discusses the deployment of CCS technology in respect of energy from waste incineration plants. There are numerous such plants in Scotland. Can you comment on the economics of retrofitting existing plants, and on whether CCS could be deployed effectively at that scale for future energy production from waste incineration plants?

I will go back to Professor Haszeldine on that question.