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I understand that, and I presume that the right to appeal will be with the regulator, if there is an environmental issue. I am interested in a situation in which there might be a very localised case—it might be the only case in Scotland—of a pollution incident, for example. There might not be a way to adequately seek justice in that case and the case might point to the need for a change in the law, or for the regulatory body to regulate in a different way from how it currently discharges its duties. ESS might have gone through the complaints process with the regulatory body and not got anywhere, so it might think that it could look at whether the body is regulating effectively and whether there needs to be a change in the law. Is that not a difficult decision for ESS to make right now? It would still just be one case. Where is the discretion in that?

Do you want that to be in the bill or are you happy for it to be in guidance and to assume that the Government will make the right decision?

Do Andrew Thin and Gary Campbell want to comment on the threshold issue? What would be an adequate threshold for land management plans?

One aspect of Aarhus compliance involves the ability of citizens to challenge not only a decision-making procedure that they believe was inadequate, but the merit of the decision. That is something that we do not really have. The convention talks about

“the substantive and procedural legality”

of environmental decisions. At the moment—this is the case with fracking and some other environmental issues—environmental non-governmental organisations can take bodies to court when they believe that they have not followed an adequate procedure, but they cannot challenge the substance of the decision. For example, they cannot say that a decision is not great in relation to our legal obligations around climate change. As long as the procedure that a minister or a body goes through to get to that decision is procedurally correct, there is no issue for the courts to consider.

Where does the Government sit on that issue? It would be quite a move to enable people to challenge a decision based on the merits of the decision, and not just on the procedure. I would be interested to hear your views on that.

I know that we are discussing licensing this morning, but I will bring my question down to a specific issue. Do you think that the Supreme Court’s recent decision on Rosebank starts to move into the area of concern about the merit of a particular decision rather than the procedural aspect of it?

You have suggested that the Government could have concerns about the establishment of an environmental court, because it could be disruptive—I think that that is what you said—to actions that we need to take in relation to delivering net zero by 2045. I suppose that Mr Lumsden might want to take the Government to court over its decisions on pylon lines or whatever.

Could you expand on that issue? What is the underlying concern? Is it about environmental NGOs possibly challenging offshore wind farms, such as the Berwick Bank project, about which there is concern at the moment? There have been concerns about other such projects in the past. Is the Government hesitating on the issues because there is fear that some of the tensions around environmental mitigation and impact could result in lengthy delays to some of the good stuff that it needs to do around net zero?

Thank you.

I recognise that there are different views within the community. Perhaps what unites them is the need for transparency and, at the moment, there is not a clear vision of what a long-term management plan for the village, for the estate and for Glen Lyon will look like. Do you acknowledge that it would benefit both sides of the debate to understand what the estate will achieve in 30, 40 or 50 years’ time?

It is, convener.

I have been writing a lot of notes this morning and thinking about the various suggestions for amendments and ways in which the bill could be improved. I am wondering where we are with the bill now that we have had several hours of criticism and proposals for some pretty fundamental changes to it. What are your thoughts on the bill? Should the bill as it stands pass? Is it fixable?

Has the £5,000 sanction in relation to the register of persons holding a controlled interest in land been effective, or is it too early to tell?