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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 December 2024
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Displaying 1816 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

I want to ask you not just about alignment with regard to legislation that comes through directives, but about how those laws are interpreted once they are in domestic legislation. For example, with environmental legislation, there are often differing interpretations of the habitats regulations, which then go before the European Commission. There are often petitions and concerns expressed about licensing the killing of certain species and so on. Is that another area in which there could be divergence in interpretation of laws that originally came from Europe but that are now in domestic legislation and are open to a different interpretation?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

Are there any networks that we are not plugged into, or that we are unplugging from, at the moment?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

My last question is on how all this works with other countries that are not in the European Union but that might align or be part of an acquis with it. I refer to countries that are in the European Free Trade Association, such as Norway, and other countries that have a presence in Brussels and keep well informed about policy development there. How have they dealt with the question? How do they stay aware of policy changes and develop discussions with their stakeholders and public bodies?

09:30  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

Unless it is not in Scotland’s interests. That is what you caveated earlier.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

When our predecessor committee considered the replacement for the registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals—REACH—regulations, one of the points that the non-governmental organisations raised at the time was that they very much valued the EU policy development forum, not just in relation to policy development, but from the point of view of on-going scrutiny of the evolution of those regulations over time in the EU. With the advent of the UK REACH regulations, there was a real sense of loss that that forum had not been replaced. As a result, although NGOs might be consulted, they are not involved in co-producing the regulations and taking part in their on-going scrutiny and evolution. The depth of EU policy making has been lost, and I think that that is worth reflecting on.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

As you were speaking, I started to think about whether there is a role for wider public bodies. I will stick with the environment. I presume that the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and NatureScot would be very aware of any decisions that were made on environmental regulations by the Commission or the European Court of Justice and that they would at least flag up to ministers if there were potential divergence over, say, species licensing proposals.

Do you have any thoughts on the role of Environmental Standards Scotland, now that the Commission has gone? Should it play a fuller part in the architecture of scrutiny and in understanding what alignment actually means on the ground?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

My question is in a similar vein. Wider transparency is important. The report that is before us talks only about the use of the section 1 powers and not about alignment in the broadest sense, which, as Ms Boyack has just explained, is about not just legislation but the interpretation of law.

I want to move on from that conversation to think about what the different levels could be. You have described some of the challenges that parliamentary committees face with the sift process, but you have also said that consultation on those areas generally takes place with stakeholders. What kind of in-depth information can we get, particularly in areas in which, as you have said, there might be a divergence that is in Scotland’s interests? How can that be flagged up at an appropriate level for the committee and stakeholders? That is not really clear in the report that is before us, and it is clear that decisions have been made where Scotland has diverged from the European Union.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

That is useful. I think that the cabinet secretary explained things well earlier when he talked about laws that are effectively redundant now that we are outside the structure of the European Union and those areas in which powers are reserved under the current settlement. However, there are also the conscious decisions to diverge, and transparency in that respect is perhaps missing at the moment.

Perhaps I can give you an example. An assumption has been made that we are in alignment with the EU climate change laws, because we have our own climate change legislation, which was updated quite recently with enhanced targets that actually go beyond EU law. However, I am doing a piece of work with a colleague in the Bundestag on the EU taxonomy, which is effectively part of EU law, with regard to which sectors are deemed to be climate neutral and therefore worthy of investment in the European Union. As I am sure the cabinet secretary is aware, that is a big area of debate not just in Germany but elsewhere in the EU. Are we or are we not aligned with the EU taxonomy on green investment, which is part of EU climate law? Has there been any consideration of that? If so, where did the conversation go? That is one example in which things are not entirely clear.

10:30  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

[Inaudible.]—area of alignment with EU policy, such as climate.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 (Draft Policy Statement and Draft Annual Report)

Meeting date: 18 November 2021

Mark Ruskell

That shows the level of information that it would be useful for wider stakeholders to understand, particularly if we are going to get into a debate about joining the EU. We might like what is in the EU taxonomy and we might like the way that European investment is going, but we might not. That is an example of where that level of information and consideration within the Scottish Government—I hope that there is consideration of that—