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Those have been interesting responses from you both on the prevention question. It is difficult to see, though, within the RSR, exactly how that preventative approach is being driven through. You talk about culture and about changing how public services are working, but it is hard to see a budget line shifting within health towards culture or wellbeing or whatever.

Is part of the issue about the timescale that the budgets are addressing? It is hard to show the impact of preventative spend within one year; it is probably very hard to show it within three to four years as well. Is there something about needing to take a longer-term look at this, as we have with wider strategies? How do we then frame that within the short-term budgets that we always have to look at, including the RSR?

It is great to hear how you are harnessing that energy from citizens. We can certainly learn from that here in Scotland.

I will also ask you about your sustainability goals, which I think have been in place for a long time now. How do those influence policy making? Do you have a sustainability framework that you apply to policies? How do those goals influence the individual discussions that politicians and others are having?

Thank you for that.

I will move on to another question. I was interested to hear earlier that you are a forester by background. Can you say a little more about how municipal forests are helping to achieve Freiburg’s net zero targets and to restore biodiversity?

I think that we would call them nature networks. They involve the restoration of nature at landscape scale. What role does the municipality have in that? Are there issues with land ownership if some landowners prefer traditional agricultural use of land, rather than rewilding or creating new, large-scale habitats?

I have a final question about the links to your work on forests. I see that you are doing a lot of work to develop biomes. I think that, in English, we would interpret that to mean nature networks.

I am sorry—yes, “biotopes” is the word.

Can you give a specific example of where there has been conflict between the sustainable development goals and how that was resolved? Is it ultimately for politicians to resolve that conflict?

Do you see there being a role in a more sustainable supply chain for wood fuel biomass for heating, or is that a diminishing part of the energy mix?

It is really interesting to hear your evidence, Franziska. I will pick up on your last point about how engaged citizens are in Freiburg. Will you talk me through the formal mechanisms for engaging citizens? Is there a danger of what we call consultation fatigue, as a result of people being constantly asked about public policy? What sort of mechanisms do you have for engaging citizens? Are there citizens assemblies or particular referendums or discussions on particular issues? How does such engagement manifest itself?

I was just reflecting on the point that Ian Forrester made about the European Union’s approach to developing policy, which involves in-depth working with scientific advisers, industry bodies, environmental non-governmental organisations and other stakeholders. Do you and the other witnesses see a mismatch or growing divergence between that well-established EU approach, which the UK was very much part of over many years, and the way in which policy is now being developed in the UK? Professor Barnard’s example of gene editing might be an interesting one to use to reflect on the robustness of the conversation that might be happening in the EU compared with what is being proposed here. Another example might relate to fisheries.