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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 3120 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thanks, Liz. I should just say that better scrutiny does not necessarily preclude legislation.

10:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The question is, that motion S6M-15749 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I was going to ask specifically about the “Burning platform”, because that phrase intrigued me. When responding to Michael Marra’s question, will you give us a wee bit of background as to what that is? The submission just says that it is

“a compelling case for change.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

What sort of hearing are you getting?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

There will be a division.

For

Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)

Against

Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for responding to our questions.

10:40 Meeting suspended.  

10:45 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The next item on our agenda is to take evidence from two panels of witnesses on the Scottish budget 2025-26. First, we will hear from Stephen Boyle, Auditor General for Scotland; and Fiona Diggle, audit manager, performance audit and best value, Audit Scotland. I welcome you both to the meeting and wish you a happy new year, and I invite the Auditor General to make a brief opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

How important is transparency in that culture? My experience with Transport Scotland is that transparency is not important at all. For example, I have asked questions for five years on a specific project in my constituency, and the answer that I continue to get—when I ask in the chamber and through written questions and so on—is that Transport Scotland is currently progressing through the necessary governance procedures.

I have asked what those governance procedures are and I am still waiting to hear, three or four years later. Regarding one project, I got told on 17 November 2021 that I would be kept informed. Three and a half years later, I still have not been given an update on that specific project.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. The report is excellent and very detailed. It is quite excoriating of the Government in some areas—no doubt we will touch on those in the next hour or so.

One of the issues that you mentioned was transparency. The committee produced a pre-budget scrutiny report for 2025-26, and we just received the response to it on Christmas eve. The section of the response on reform was not impressive, so we will raise the issue of reform with the Government as we progress.

Some of the issues that I was going to ask you about directly are ones that you touched on in your statement, so I will not go over that ground again. However, I will touch on a number of areas that you spoke about. I do not mean to say that what you said is repetitive, but you repeatedly emphasised that you have a number of concerns.

Rather than start at the beginning, let us go into the middle. In paragraph 37 on page 14 of your report, you say:

“Additional spending on pay deals would need to be covered by cutting spending in other areas, re-designing services, reducing headcounts or increasing taxes or charges.”

Do you feel that the Government’s policy on no compulsory redundancies has had an impact on that? The policy was introduced as a one-year policy in 2008 at a time of severe financial cuts due to the financial crash, but it has continued for 16 years. Has it had any impact? I understand that, in some areas of the public sector, there are people who have been redeployed because there is no longer a job for them but they cannot be made redundant.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

That is a “moving swiftly on” answer. However, in terms of transparency, if I ask a specific question about what the governance procedures are, because constituents and community organisations are asking me directly, is it not a courtesy, apart from anything else, to respond and say, “These are the procedures and this is how long it is going to take to wade through them,” rather than just present this blank wall? I have to say that that seems to be unique to Transport Scotland. I am not aware of any other public body where, if I ask a direct question, three or four years later, I still have not had an answer, even though I have asked it at every level that it is possible to ask it at.