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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 3120 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and Mr Macleod for their evidence. We will publish a short report that sets out our decision on the draft instrument.

11:27 Meeting continued in private until 11:55.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In every debate, we hear more suggestions from your colleagues about the need for additional funding.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, but that £160 million is for dealing with the 7,000-odd people who come forward for treatment, not all of whom take it up—we know that about a third do not go forward with it—and those who take up alcohol services. If we increase the budget from, say, £160 million to £198 million, as is suggested in the financial memorandum, but the number of people who seek treatment for drugs alone doubles from more than 7,000 to 15,000, that £198 million will get blown pretty quickly, assuming that all the staff and facilities are already in place.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate what you say, but the point that I am trying to make is that, even if we take on board what you have said about the data, extraneous costs—capital and the stuff that I have already mentioned, such as complementary and on-going support—still do not seem to be included.

I will ask just one more question, because I know that colleagues are keen to come in. In paragraph 30 of its submission, COSLA says:

“It should also be noted that Employer’s National Insurance Contributions are also a significant pressing risk for Local Government, commissioned services and other public and third sector bodies. Councils would not be able to meet additional costs, if the rise is not fully funded, and would be forced to make difficult decisions, as would IJBs and ADPs.”

We are talking about a significant cost here. Where do you feel that the money could be found in the Scottish Government’s budget? We have just passed a budget, and there will be on-going and increasing demands and challenges throughout the year. It looks as though employer national insurance contribution increases are here to stay, so there will be an on-going cost for local authorities, the public sector and, indeed, the third sector, which is under the cosh, as you know. Where in the Scottish budget do you think that the money for the bill should come from?

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

We talked about zero-based budgeting in the committee after our visit to Estonia, where the Government is doing that at a departmental level. Of course, it is done quite a lot in many areas of the private sector. Might you take that approach to some of those public bodies? It seems that some of them are there because they have always been there, but you could look at them and ask what their core activity is and whether it has to be that organisation that delivers that activity. Could you look at public bodies in that way?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, but you have said:

“The balance is held to fund any changes in demand led schemes and devolved tax receipts”.

It seems to me that there is almost a contingency beyond that contingency.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The £6.9 million is not only for the 48 places or I would be able to do that; we just know that it includes the cost of those places. I am wondering what the cost is, so that we can see where the differentials are. Obviously, there is a high cost in the public sector in the Scottish Prison Service. If it is less expensive in the private sector, I can understand the Government looking to use that more in the future, rather than releasing prisoners. However, if it is more expensive—I suspect that it is, but I do not know, because we do not have the figures—that is something that you would not want to do unless you felt forced to do it.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that, but, in that particular area of social security, there is huge variation. Obviously, there are concerns that there could be significant underestimates. Adult disability payments are another area where there are concerns. What is the Scottish Government doing to ensure that its forecasting and the data that it applies are more accurate, so that we do not have a situation in which we have such readjustments either later in the year or early next year?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that. Thank you.

We all want to see minimal changes when we go through the autumn and spring budget revisions. Everyone wants the budget that is ultimately signed off a year later to reflect the one that was agreed to by Parliament the previous February.

I notice that £6.9 million of additional funding is going towards the Scottish Prison Service’s public-private partnership. That includes increasing the purchase of up to an additional 48 prison places at HMP Addiewell to help manage the large prison population. How much does it cost to buy a prison place for a year from the private sector?